A decentralized web would give power back to the people online • Hacker News Board

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#11

Post by dcposch » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:53 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #4

The real issue is that we need to make it illegal to give out free content, unless it's distributed under an open license. Otherwise advertising-supported businesses will always be able to outcompete everyone else via dumping, and these businesses always benefit from being increasingly centralized. That's why we don't have liberal newspapers anymore in the U.S., because ad supported papers put them all out of busines…

> The real issue is that we need to make it illegal to give out free content

The First Amendment guarantees that I can publish freely, with or without charging for access

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#12

Post by johannes1234321 » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:54 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #4

The real issue is that we need to make it illegal to give out free content, unless it's distributed under an open license. Otherwise advertising-supported businesses will always be able to outcompete everyone else via dumping, and these businesses always benefit from being increasingly centralized. That's why we don't have liberal newspapers anymore in the U.S., because ad supported papers put them all out of busines…

> At the very least people need to be trained that it's unethical to surf the web without using an adblocker.

It's also unethical that ad Networks spread malware (that happened multiple times) and cause costs from my mobile company due to all those auto playing videos. It's also unethical that they track me all over the web.

In a newspaper I'm not tracked and no ads jump at me and I get to throw away all those stupid flyers without anybody judging my ethics.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#13

Post by BjoernKW » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

Ironically, GitHub is a prime example of why centralisation is harmful. If GitHub suddenly disappeared tomorrow (or even just went offline for a few hours), many software build processes in the world would grind to a halt. Sure, because Git is a decentralised protocol eventually it'd all be brought back up again but it'd cause a major disruption and at the very least create enormous costs.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#14

Post by keyle » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

dcposch wrote: post #10

mixedCase wrote: post #2

"A decentralized web would be very slightly inconvenient to the people so forget about your freedom and privacy who cares about that." More realistic title. It would make for a shorter article though.

Switching from Facebook to, say, Diaspora or something is more than just "slightly inconvenient". One of them has all of my friends on it and the other has none. -- Two ideas for how we can help decentralization win. 1. Don't just clone an existing app. The two decentralized protocols with the most adoption by far are Bitcoin and BitTorrent. Both of them have capabilities that no centralized system can match. Same wi…

I'm totally with you on number 2 - but don't those things require money? UX, design, consistent look, all require money. And honestly, the press is a lot more likely to talk about you if you have money invested and shiny offices. To get such things, you have to have a profoundly interesting argument to investors, which usually does not rhyme with "we want to free the people, privacy, etc". There are, of course, exceptions.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#15

Post by dgudkov » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

I believe the internet is naturally drifting to "governed countries" (e.g. Google or Facebook) and one of the biggest drivers is not just convenience, but decreasing security of the web in general. Just like the wild West eventually became a number of states with borders, police and government. It became especially relevant in the recent years, when harvesting exploits en masse has become a huge industry. Yes, centralized "web governments" have exponentially increasing attractiveness for attackers although they can benefit from scale, applying good security practices more consistently than multiple decentralized self-governed "nodes". The criminals tend to self-organize and centralize. Why? because it's more effective. As long as there are centralized "bad guys" "good citizens" don't have any other choice than unite and develop a centralized policed "country". And "the bad guys" won't go anytime soon. The decentralized web is like youth -- it's a wonderful idealistic time but it's gone and will never return back.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#16

Post by tgirod » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

dcposch wrote: post #10

mixedCase wrote: post #2

"A decentralized web would be very slightly inconvenient to the people so forget about your freedom and privacy who cares about that." More realistic title. It would make for a shorter article though.

Switching from Facebook to, say, Diaspora or something is more than just "slightly inconvenient". One of them has all of my friends on it and the other has none. -- Two ideas for how we can help decentralization win. 1. Don't just clone an existing app. The two decentralized protocols with the most adoption by far are Bitcoin and BitTorrent. Both of them have capabilities that no centralized system can match. Same wi…

I would argue that the most adopted decrentralized protocol is probably e-mail. Well, it's more of a federated network rather than purely decentralized, but the article does not really make a strong disctinction here.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#17

Post by aninhumer » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

dcposch wrote: post #10

mixedCase wrote: post #2

"A decentralized web would be very slightly inconvenient to the people so forget about your freedom and privacy who cares about that." More realistic title. It would make for a shorter article though.

Switching from Facebook to, say, Diaspora or something is more than just "slightly inconvenient". One of them has all of my friends on it and the other has none. -- Two ideas for how we can help decentralization win. 1. Don't just clone an existing app. The two decentralized protocols with the most adoption by far are Bitcoin and BitTorrent. Both of them have capabilities that no centralized system can match. Same wi…

>The two decentralized protocols with the most adoption by far are Bitcoin and BitTorrent.

What about email? It's become quite centralised in practice, but it is ultimately a decentralised protocol, and it is used by pretty much everyone on the internet.

And even in its semi-centralised form, it's nowhere near the walled garden of Facebook.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#18

Post by dannyrosen » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

The nature of the net us to centralize and then decentralize, it's a cycle. See 90s AOL vs the open net as an example. At this point it's more about usability than it is about access. The open tools that are being built still have a ways to go towards fluid user on-boarding and compelling retention experiences.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#19

Post by apetrovic » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #4

The real issue is that we need to make it illegal to give out free content, unless it's distributed under an open license. Otherwise advertising-supported businesses will always be able to outcompete everyone else via dumping, and these businesses always benefit from being increasingly centralized. That's why we don't have liberal newspapers anymore in the U.S., because ad supported papers put them all out of busines…

I lived in one totalitarian society, in Eastern Europe, which started on a good principles of general equality, but with caveat that people aren't really ready for the bright future, so we should train them to do the right thing, and make illegal to do things that leaders don't like.

Why we don't, instead, make that free, decentralized Web 3.0 better than the current one, so the people will willingly use it? To borrow the example from the article, people are using git over subversion not because it's more ethical, but because it's more convenient.

It's easy sitting on a high horse and preaching about freedom and liberty. Making something that ordinary people, who don't give a flying fuck about ethical implication of software use but just want to see the picture of the grandchild or want to share the pie recipe on the internet would want to use without being "trained" or marked as "illegal" - well, that's the hard part.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#20

Post by johannes1234321 » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

susurrus wrote: post #8

Alex3917 wrote: post #4

The real issue is that we need to make it illegal to give out free content, unless it's distributed under an open license. Otherwise advertising-supported businesses will always be able to outcompete everyone else via dumping, and these businesses always benefit from being increasingly centralized. That's why we don't have liberal newspapers anymore in the U.S., because ad supported papers put them all out of busines…

Newspapers have always been ad supported. They charged for the paper, yes, but they always depended on ad revenue to survive.

In fact ads, job ads and classified ads had always (well at least last 50 years) the main revenue source. Sale prices are often a smaller, but still relevant, factor.

The newspaper crisis actually is caused by job and classified ads going away.