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Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

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Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#321
post #157
post #13

I'm a bit older than the author. Every time I feel like I'm "out of touch" with the hip new thing, I take a weekend to look into it. I tend to discover that the core principles are the same, this time someone has added another C to MVC; or the put their spin on an API for doing X; or you can tell they didn't learn from the previous solution and this new one misses the mark, but it'll be three years before anyone noti…

There's an eternal war between "avoid reinventing the wheel" and ahistorical "not invented here", isn't there? Because the profession is so heavily skewed towards the young and self-taught, people don't seem to know about the solutions of a decade ago and their merits and demerits. This is partly why software componentisation as "parts catalog" has never really taken off. It's easier to reimplement or independently r…

   eternal war between "avoid reinventing the wheel" and ahistorical "not invented here"
Did you intend to say something else? Because that's the same thing twice: you reinvent a wheel because the other wheel was 'not invented here', so if you avoid reinventing a wheel, you are suffering from NIH.

It's hard to avoid reinventing the wheel if all you know is what was invented 'here' and 'recently'.

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#322
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Back with backspace' has been standard in the Windows file manager for as long as I can remember. Given that the file manager was the moral precursor to the browser of today it would have been nice to retain it. Back with backspace!

Actually, it didn't go back on Windows XP. After using Windows 7 for 4 years, I am still not used to this 'new' behavior.

I sit corrected, thank you.

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, you think you are spending 40 hours a week at the forefront of problem solving new challenges? Let's be real, for a moment. By your definition of a hard engineering problem, very few people are spending their time doing it. Virtually no one is doing it every day. Why pick on front end dev specifically? You think the average backend dev building installing flask is facing a lot of unsolved problems? You think the…

So, I didn't want to say what I do because I didn't want to make it personal, but yes, I do. I work in biotech and desogn control systems for an immunofluorescent imaging device and associated computer vision algorithms used to identify circulating tumor cells in the blood stream. We just released a prognostic test for colon cancer which is actually relatively groundbreaking as it provides a new treatment path for pe…

Stringing together some OpenCV functions isn't hard engineering.

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#324
This comes up approximately annually. I used to answer at length. But now at 69 brevity seems more productive. I am probably nearing the end of my accidental unplanned drunkard's walk career, one that start in 1967 when I was dropped (unskilled 19 yr old college hippie drop-out) into the inside (literally) of a mainframe and told to "make it work". wandered subsequently through probably every computing field, and lately do audio DSP work inside game consoles. Inside the inside of a current SOC inside a black box.

My conclusion: there is no formula for staying relevant. Perhaps an understanding of the roots and rapid skill acquisition, but beyond that every second I spent learning a new framework just because has been a second wasted. By the timne I was somewhere it was poossibly relevant, it was already dead and replaced or I was too far ahead of the time and had to write my own.

Further, and sadly, after 50 some years in the biz, I still understand the insides of current SOC chips, and I shouldn't - no progress has been made in practical computing thoeretics at all. Lots of embellishment, lots of band-aids, nothing really different. Otherwise I would not be able to do this job.

Yes, really, brief this time. $0.01 instead of a full $.

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#325

I get where the guy is coming from, I'm right there as an old guy. On the other hand, I think there is a bit too much fatalism in the article. Sometimes the kids are being stupid, and they need to be told so. The vast majority of web apps could be built in 1/10th the code with server-side rendering and intercooler.js. All this client-side crap is wasted when you are trying to get text from computer A into data-store…

Yes! As a still-young-ish guy who's just old enough to remember when things were slightly saner, please let me encourage you to get out there and make it happen. Don't let the Javascript fatigue apologists make you feel like you're too old to have an opinion.

So Intercooler is one of the sane ones, eh? Apply to talk at a JS conference and tell us about it. If it's somewhere near me, I'll do my best to be there.

The only reason why things have gotten so out of hand is because the people without the experience and wisdom are doing all the talking.

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, you think you are spending 40 hours a week at the forefront of problem solving new challenges? Let's be real, for a moment. By your definition of a hard engineering problem, very few people are spending their time doing it. Virtually no one is doing it every day. Why pick on front end dev specifically? You think the average backend dev building installing flask is facing a lot of unsolved problems? You think the…

So, I didn't want to say what I do because I didn't want to make it personal, but yes, I do. I work in biotech and desogn control systems for an immunofluorescent imaging device and associated computer vision algorithms used to identify circulating tumor cells in the blood stream. We just released a prognostic test for colon cancer which is actually relatively groundbreaking as it provides a new treatment path for pe…

So you are using a fluorescent fiberscope to identify tumors.

So you are implementing some vision library. How is that a hard engineering problem?

> So yes, I feel that I am.

That's the crux of the issue. You are doing exactly what you find so distasteful about web development: implementing existing algorithms to solve a specific problem.

Unless of course, your team is actually inventing new vision algorithms that somehow changed the field, which I'd love to see the paper on.

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#327

I get where the guy is coming from, I'm right there as an old guy. On the other hand, I think there is a bit too much fatalism in the article. Sometimes the kids are being stupid, and they need to be told so. The vast majority of web apps could be built in 1/10th the code with server-side rendering and intercooler.js. All this client-side crap is wasted when you are trying to get text from computer A into data-store…

Yes! As a still-young-ish guy who's just old enough to remember when things were slightly saner, please let me encourage you to get out there and make it happen. Don't let the Javascript fatigue apologists make you feel like you're too old to have an opinion. So Intercooler is one of the sane ones, eh? Apply to talk at a JS conference and tell us about it. If it's somewhere near me, I'll do my best to be there. The o…

I've applied to so many JS conferences it makes me ill to think about it. The only slot I found (outside of my local Sacramento groups) was at UberConf in Denver, and the turnout was small.

Turns out the "You are all doing it completely wrong, stop writing so much Javascript" is a tough sell at Javascript conferences. ;)

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! As a still-young-ish guy who's just old enough to remember when things were slightly saner, please let me encourage you to get out there and make it happen. Don't let the Javascript fatigue apologists make you feel like you're too old to have an opinion. So Intercooler is one of the sane ones, eh? Apply to talk at a JS conference and tell us about it. If it's somewhere near me, I'll do my best to be there. The o…

I've applied to so many JS conferences it makes me ill to think about it. The only slot I found (outside of my local Sacramento groups) was at UberConf in Denver, and the turnout was small. Turns out the "You are all doing it completely wrong, stop writing so much Javascript" is a tough sell at Javascript conferences. ;)

Hey, Rich Hickey got to tell a bunch of Rubyists at RailsConf to stop using objects.

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've applied to so many JS conferences it makes me ill to think about it. The only slot I found (outside of my local Sacramento groups) was at UberConf in Denver, and the turnout was small. Turns out the "You are all doing it completely wrong, stop writing so much Javascript" is a tough sell at Javascript conferences. ;)

Hey, Rich Hickey got to tell a bunch of Rubyists at RailsConf to stop using objects.

Ruby folks are more open minded than JavaScript folks.

_ducks_

Re: Reflections of an “Old” Programmer

#330

It is plain and simple, Kids. I'm 52 - been programming professionally since the 70's when I started writing C code and getting paid for it in 5th grade. Our "professional" is writing glue code, and how it is done and what hoops are jumped through simply do not matter: all that matters is the final shipping product, widget, or logical dodad works for the immediate marketing moment. I speak from enviable experience: g…

Do you think it's about this; and the "scalability" of the software stuff confuses one part of the manufacturing (copypaste by distribution through people installing from internet) with another part of it (copypaste by programmers copypasting copypasta code to "manufacture" more apps)?

It seems like you have introduced a new notion of manufacturing as part of coding which I like, and is a way to make yourself disciplined; while at the same time given that coding has potential for "research" by individuals with not much means the manufacturing process can be itself improved greatly (new libraries or techniques or things like when WWW happened but needs externalities like ARPA hardware prior work), and that's what I think makes it exciting. We are basically teaching machines to understand language that is intuitive to us so we can make it do things people want, and new things people want that weren't possible earlier or were only done by people earlier can often only be gotten to by Kuhn-esque revolutions in the philosophy. We started with code, and either more people code or computers understand people more, or both and we meet in the middle.

To go with the trend; this feeling of "nothing new" in CS and engr-using-CS is nothing new, it's how science and engr-using-science has seemed to work if you look past the programmable machines. [1] "normal science" cycles with paradigm shifts have happened in all sorts of engineering-influencing research processes (often called "science," at least part of it). Its just that in CS the period-length of revolution-normal things is quick because of, among many things, increased empowerment of individuals. And to the extent that this empowers individuals that can afford programmable devices and learn somehow (see many kids in many parts of the world that don't have much means) or having their friends teach in social settings if unempowered (visit that rich friend's house play video games and accidentally learn from them to code), that is a normative-ethics motivation to "contribute to society," and often even empathy-ethics works out because kids coding can remind you of you coding as a kid or something.

The hope is that kids socialize across and often in spite of traditional barriers and spread the knowledge / empowerment; and while teaching them (fact-leaning) we learn from them about our own personal biases (which we can still teach but why not program-in perspectivism). In the end some may have personal ethics or motivation structures that cause them to way that sort of thing vs. personal allegience to a status quo, or through chance encounters happen to do it more.

Sorry about the philosophy rambling, I just sort of find it fun and similar to coding.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_science

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