This phenomena (that children are not statistically independent of their grandparents even when controlling for parents) has already been found to be robustly true in Europe and some eastern countries. Gregory Clark wrote a book on it that was widely discussed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_(book) The point is that families transmit something across multiple (> 5 generations) that's responsible for…
New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
51–60 of 101 posts
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#52This is anecdotal in some ways but I think some of my observations can be generalized and observed consistently as I've moved to various places. I have (not a graduate degree but a Bachelors) a degree in Engineering from a top Private University but neither of my parents or their parents even graduated from highschool, much less went to college. I loved to read and learn from a young age, made straight As and thought…
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#53This is anecdotal in some ways but I think some of my observations can be generalized and observed consistently as I've moved to various places. I have (not a graduate degree but a Bachelors) a degree in Engineering from a top Private University but neither of my parents or their parents even graduated from highschool, much less went to college. I loved to read and learn from a young age, made straight As and thought…
Tell me about both grandparents and?both great-GPs Did you meet them? What did they do? Did they obtain formal education?
White Mother: Great Grandparents rich oil $$$ in Texas. Wife no formal education, alcoholic. Father business degree white men making oil money in Texas. Had ONE child. The ONE child was a girl (My grandmother). Rich Girls in Texas are not allowed to learn how to handle money. She went to finishing school. She inherited the money, and did as she was told and taught, gave her money to the man to let men handle the money.
Married a Southern babtist preacher and he squandered it all in 5 years dont know how. BY the time my mom was born they lived on a farm in South Georgia and he was preaching at his church.
My mom was a preachers daughter who fell in love with the Poor Native American kid in South Georgia, from the Natives who refused to go on the trail of tears.
It was the beginning of a BEAUTIFUL LOVE STORY! lol. and the rest is history as they say.
and yeh, my mom is extremely religious as is all my family. I am not. So add that onto the list of socially isolating struggles and criticism I had to deal with. I was taught women are not supposed to talk about science or politics, and that science is a scheme to eliminate god from the equation. Ummm yup, it is! It's a pretty good one too, trying to replace God with understanding and answers.
So In Summary Background FEMALE NATIVE AMERICAN CHRISTIAN WELFARE POOR
goes to be an Electrical Engineer working in a male dominated environment, compounding every minority status to the extreme. Dude, its been an interesting ride but I can tell you one thing, I don't give a F^%& about what other people think now because I'm used to being an outlier, so I HAD to overcome that to do well and have good self esteem and tell myself I can keep learning and do well.
Some people would complain and say its been hard. It has been hard and socially isolating but actually if you choose and force yourself to look at your uniqueness as an advantage I think about things differently and it usually gives me an edge in applying ideas I have or understanding how to communicate and implement them. People get scared or attack things they don't understand. I'm not as understandable or relatable to other people but the more you hang out with intelligent people the less they do that so its just motivation to be around better people and do better things and work on more challenging things.
Also, people will try to tear you down at first, but if you hold your ground and respect yourself and respect other people regardless of how they respect themselves and how they respect you, eventually they will respect you, but theres not alot of instant gratification here, so I can only say this in retrospect.
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#54This phenomena (that children are not statistically independent of their grandparents even when controlling for parents) has already been found to be robustly true in Europe and some eastern countries. Gregory Clark wrote a book on it that was widely discussed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_(book) The point is that families transmit something across multiple (> 5 generations) that's responsible for…
> The point is that families transmit something across multiple (> 5 generations) that's responsible for strong persistent effects on economic success, and it's almost certainly not money (which can be measured and decays faster). Has it actually been proven that it is not money or stuff that money can buy?
In other words, if this were being transmitted through money, you'd just condition on the parents (or grandparents) amount of money and expect to find that the success of children to then be independent (unless, e.g., children were all digging up gold secretly left to them by their long-dead great-great-grandparents). But instead, I think the idea is that even after you condition on success of parents and grand parents, the success of great-great-grandparents still has strong predictive ability.
Indeed, if you thought money was playing a significant role, you'd expect that exogenous injections of money would lead to long lasting effects, but in fact they decay very quickly.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/26/compound-interest-is-th...
That still allows for the possibility that money is buying something that one's ancestors can robustly transmit across many generations (often bundled up under the term "culture"), but then you could test that hypothesis with twin studies and adoption studies.
Anyways, that's a cartoon version, and undoubtedly simplified and biased by the small number of people I was reading. Would love to get counter data.
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's genetics, why is this such a mystery? The whole point of evolution is that you pass on good traits. When people do well, they pair with other people who are good genetically, and through the generations, their children do well. Why is this such a mystery?
It's not only genetics. Parents who do well know how the system works and pass that knowledge on to their children. Children who come from poverty have a lot of learning to do and it's hard to do this without role models.
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#56This phenomena (that children are not statistically independent of their grandparents even when controlling for parents) has already been found to be robustly true in Europe and some eastern countries. Gregory Clark wrote a book on it that was widely discussed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_(book) The point is that families transmit something across multiple (> 5 generations) that's responsible for…
Its rare for family firms to last for 5 generations on one of the rare exception that I know in the UK is Charles wells (the brewer) when one of the board is a family member.
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#57This is anecdotal in some ways but I think some of my observations can be generalized and observed consistently as I've moved to various places. I have (not a graduate degree but a Bachelors) a degree in Engineering from a top Private University but neither of my parents or their parents even graduated from highschool, much less went to college. I loved to read and learn from a young age, made straight As and thought…
This is an incredibly interesting story. I haven't been through nearly anything as bad as you, but my insight onto the issues of my family were similar - poverty and lack of knowledge and hard psychological issues. Because our society doesn't consider (yet) psychological issues to be "real" in the sense that any other illness is, we get this dumb talk about how "you can get out of it if you want". Yes that might be t…
The influence your community has on your personal decisions and how that impacts your personal wealth is significant.
Weve already witnessed highschool suicides tend to happen in clusters. Weve witnessed it as a nation at Gunn Highschool in SanFran and other areas. If one kid does it, the two others who were seriously considering it are more likely to follow through.
This is also a root cause of the housing foreclosure crisis. Wired Magazine did a piece. One of the missing pieces of analysis was the correlation noticed when one person on your street forecloses on a house, how much the likelihood goes up that other people on your street will too. They retroactively did that analysis and found a huge correlation.
We should do this type of correlation in alot more studies, particularly ones dedicated to trying to understand socioeconomic mobility.
I say correlation because correlation is not causation. The causation we can't know right away but it might be helpful to first look at some significant correlations and then try to understand if there is a cause and effect relationship. Or at the very least come up with some likliehood statistics.
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#58This phenomena (that children are not statistically independent of their grandparents even when controlling for parents) has already been found to be robustly true in Europe and some eastern countries. Gregory Clark wrote a book on it that was widely discussed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_(book) The point is that families transmit something across multiple (> 5 generations) that's responsible for…
This can have implications that might not come out in the statistics. Even if you don't have any money, if most of the people you're connected to are mostly financially stable, they are (1) less likely to ask you for help and (2) more likely to help you if you need it. Being from a poor family in a poor neighborhood will likely have the opposite effects - they can't help you as much, and are more likely to need your help.
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#59This phenomena (that children are not statistically independent of their grandparents even when controlling for parents) has already been found to be robustly true in Europe and some eastern countries. Gregory Clark wrote a book on it that was widely discussed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_(book) The point is that families transmit something across multiple (> 5 generations) that's responsible for…
I'm skeptical about whether they can really account for available financial resources, broadly measured. Not just how much money you have, or your parents have, but how much money your more distant relatives have, and your friends and neighbors and their friends. This can have implications that might not come out in the statistics. Even if you don't have any money, if most of the people you're connected to are mostly…
Re: New research suggests that social mobility in America may be more limited
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's genetics, why is this such a mystery? The whole point of evolution is that you pass on good traits. When people do well, they pair with other people who are good genetically, and through the generations, their children do well. Why is this such a mystery?
It's not only genetics. Parents who do well know how the system works and pass that knowledge on to their children. Children who come from poverty have a lot of learning to do and it's hard to do this without role models.
One of my best friends who is very intelligent and successful came from a working class family that didn't emphasize sound personal finance education to say the least.
He kept his savings in HS in his "sock in a drawer" account.
I came from an upper middle class family that was the opposite. I was given a share or two of stocks for birthday gifts sometimes (often at my request instead of toys) when I was young to educate me on their value and was taught from a very young age to invest, save in a bank, build credit, and live below my means.
While my friend is doing well financially, you can perhaps guess at how much of his money is invested vs mine.
This story plays out in numerous other ways that also can lead to compounding effects with things like education, health, criminal activity, etc.
These things are picked up on by children from all parts of the family. If your family generally has their act together, knows how to be smart with money, etc. there's probably a good chance of that rubbing off on kids which sets them down a certain path in life that might be very different otherwise.