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Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

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Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#281

Post by dragonwriter »

rayiner wrote: post #272
DominikR wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who can then be held responsible when a big company commits criminal acts? My opinion: Anyone who took part in it either knowing it is illegal or even if the person should have known it is illegal considering his/her position. Same goes for persons that didn't necessarily know about it but acted negligent or ignored standard procedures that are in place to prevent such a thing. > But in general a CEO should have a…

> My opinion: Anyone who took part in it either knowing it is illegal or even if the person should have known it is illegal considering his/her position. As a general rule, we don't hold people criminally liable for simple negligence.

As a general rule, knowing that something is illegal isn't part of the required mental state, even for acts that require doing something "knowingly"; that usually refers to knowing the specific facts that make the act illegal, not knowing the law under which those acts are illegal.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#282

Post by wcummings »

gregpilling wrote: post #39
tessierashpool wrote: post #20

FWIW, this headline is not completely accurate. The story itself says further down the page, "Ferrer was arrested on felony charges of pimping a minor, pimping, and conspiracy to commit pimping." None of these are actually trafficking charges; they're run-of-the-mill prostitution charges. There's also a story from a young girl who was forced into sex work, which is certainly awful, and some stuff about studies and cl…

and it was based on a few reports of minors, who paid for ads on backpage.com, and that the sin was backpage.com took their money and should have known they were minors somehow. Out of millions of ads posted annually, they should have known that those three women were underage. Even after they checked the "I am 18" box. Bad backpage. Or maybe someone is trying to get headlines on how they are tough on crime. Because…

I'm pretty sure backpage has been on LE radar at least since CL shuttered their adult services section. It's pretty widely known as a site used to hire prostitutes, those three women were probably more representative than you think.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#283

Post by DanBC »

Anderkent wrote: post #196
DanBC wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "child prostitution" is associated is a few countries with some severe failings of law enforcement to protect children from harm. Notably, in the UK some police forces were saying that children could chose to become prostitutes, and these children were promiscuous.

Only in America you would think that a 16 or 17 year old would never choose to have sex for benefits unless forced into it.

I'm not american.

And I didn't say "never", I said in the vast majority.

And the child we're talking about here is 15, not 16 or 17.

Your comment was wrong on every point.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#284

Post by DanBC »

Anderkent wrote: post #232
ZoF wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you're replying to is from the UK. Why the anti-American sentiment?

Eh, apologies. Mostly a cheap shot. It does seem to me people in USA are more prudish about sex and overprotective of children, to the point of denying the underage any agency. But it's a more nuanced discussion, and it's easier to write a snark.

When we find a child who is paid to provide sex we almost always find someone who has been subject to coercive abuse.

It is very rare that we find children who freely make that choice.

Protecting children from that harm --and it is very severe harm-- is important.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#285

Post by pkinsky »

empthought wrote: post #253
pkinsky wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>some of the people ignorant of the shifting nature of prostitution are actually prostitutes and prostitutors themselves Sounds awful paternalistic. Have you considered the possibility that people who make choices you disagree with have agency?

Absolutely, which is why I would like to hold people who choose to purchase sex accountable for their human rights violations. They have agency; they have the choice not to purchase sex and yet they do so anyway.

If you're deliberately misinterpreting my post, we're done. If you're not, I see no point in engaging further with you.

Once again, if only for the peanut gallery: you are asserting that no sex workers have agency in the matter of their employment. Yes or no?

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#286

Post by pkinsky »

empthought wrote: post #260
pkinsky wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then replace selling fruit with backbreaking manual labor: coal mining, digging ditches, whatever. Something that causes real and permanent damage to one's body over time. Is selling your labor in such a way morally wrong?

No, but purchasing it might be. Employers can mitigate their culpability by including health and disability insurance, and workplace condition standards. They typically only do this when required by government regulation, though. And in the end there's a qualitative difference between purchasing access to a person's time and labor, and purchasing access to their mouth, vagina, and anus.

Where would all the sex workers who disagree be without you to tell them how they really feel!

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#287

Post by ChoHag »

pmorici wrote: post #138
cft wrote: post #46

This was no more a prostitution website than Craigslist, before Craigslist struck a deal with attorney generals of several states to shut down its Adult Classifieds section [1]. In fact, given Craigslist scale it had many more prostitution (and probably child prostitution) ads. The question is: why Craig and this CEO were given such disparate treatment? Because the times have changed, or because Craigslist was much b…

Probably because Craig'slist also have a sizable business in other areas not related.

It's certainly easier to start with groups who only participate in activities which are uncomfortable to publicly defend.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#288

Post by empthought »

pkinsky wrote: post #285
empthought wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, which is why I would like to hold people who choose to purchase sex accountable for their human rights violations. They have agency; they have the choice not to purchase sex and yet they do so anyway.

If you're deliberately misinterpreting my post, we're done. If you're not, I see no point in engaging further with you. Once again, if only for the peanut gallery: you are asserting that no sex workers have agency in the matter of their employment. Yes or no?

I am saying that sex workers' agency is immaterial to whether or not their clients are committing human rights abuses.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#289

Post by empthought »

makomk wrote: post #274
empthought wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right of a person to not have sexual access to their body be reduced to the object of purchase with the purpose to gratify a person who holds economic power over them. Purchasing sex is an abuse of power. This isn't really an opt-out right; surely there are people who would "consent" to situations of slavery or apartheid. This doesn't mean we should make those things legal.

Which is to say, it's about imposing morality. You want to force these people into options they've already decided are worse than having sex for money because you're more comfortable with them earning money that way, and your moral judgement is more important than their freedom.

No, I want men to stop thinking that exploiting the economic and social disadvantages of women is an acceptable way to get sex. Because I'm a decent human being and would like other men to be decent human beings.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#290

Post by empthought »

cholantesh wrote: post #273
empthought wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again you are misrepresenting my position; it's not that "sex work" is somehow more immoral than other work, it's that the purchase of sex is immoral, shameful, and frankly, pathetic. It has nothing to do with capitalism vs. anarchism or anything else. Even under capitalism, purchasing e.g. food for your family that was somehow acquired under coercive circumstances is still less shameful than purchasing e.g. diamonds…

>it's not that "sex work" is somehow more immoral than other work, it's that the purchase of sex is immoral, shameful, and frankly, pathetic It's morally acceptable to sell a service but not to purchase it? That's asinine.

"It's morally acceptable to be a slave but not to own one? That's asinine."

The "economic transaction" model is in almost all cases a fig leaf for the abuse of women, even in jurisdictions where prostitution has been legalized or decriminalized.

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