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If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

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Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#71

Post by werty1 »

linkregister wrote: post #34

Can someone speak specifically about the UK software market? We seem to wrongly be making statements about the US market, which this article is not about. From what I've heard it's dismally underpaid in the UK; I have also heard the perspective that costs of living are dramatically lower outside London, and matched with longer vacations and shorter working hours, it evens out.

The UK doesn't really value software. Costs of living are lower outside of London somewhat, but not in anywhere you can get a decent software job.

Shorter working hours doesn't really apply. Yes, we may be paid for 40 hours, but we still have tons to do. At the companies I've worked at not a single dev works less than 10 hours per day, not to mention the out of hours work that needs to be done.

Longer vacations - well on paper, but you don't always get to take them. Working on holiday isn't time off it's still work.

This is different at larger institutions, but larger institutions don't have a problem paying competitive salaries.

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#72

Post by werty1 »

linkregister wrote: post #34

Can someone speak specifically about the UK software market? We seem to wrongly be making statements about the US market, which this article is not about. From what I've heard it's dismally underpaid in the UK; I have also heard the perspective that costs of living are dramatically lower outside London, and matched with longer vacations and shorter working hours, it evens out.

The UK doesn't really value software. Costs of living are lower outside of London somewhat, but not in anywhere you can get a decent software job.

Shorter working hours doesn't really apply. Yes, we may be paid for 40 hours, but we still have tons to do. At the companies I've worked at not a single dev works less than 10 hours per day, not to mention the out of hours work that needs to be done.

Longer vacations - well on paper, but you don't always get to take them. Working on holiday isn't time off it's still work.

This is different at larger institutions, but larger institutions don't have a problem paying competitive salaries.

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#73

Post by vonmoltke »

scarmig wrote: post #70
ryandrake wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SOME Silicon Valley engineers are fairly highly paid. Especially so if you only read HN, where there's always someone who's brother's girlfriend's roommate knows someone at Google who makes $250K, therefore this must be an average salary.

$250k isn't at all unreasonable for a SWE who works at Google. And there are tens of thousands of them in the Bay Area. These are not imaginary unicorns we're talking about.

"Tens of thousands" of $250k/year engineers in the Bay Area at a company that only employs 67k total people worldwide? I find that hard to believe.

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#74

Post by jrnichols »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #16

Well my education is in economics and, in general, the way to solve a 'shortage' in labour is to raise wages. Of course, what they're really talking about is a shortage in engineers willing to do the job at the price they've specified, so they lobby the government to open up immigration to workers from abroad willing to work for less, while at the same time trying to push more and more kids into CS, so that the marke…

> the way to solve a 'shortage' in labour is to raise wages.

I wish that was happening in health care. We hear that we have a shortage of people in EMS, but our wages have been stagnant for years. Happening a lot in nursing as well. Keep hearing about shortages, but there are new grads that can't find jobs. Although some of those "shortages" are self-caused too. Not everyone is going to be able to find a new grad nurse job right there in the SF Bay Area. Sometimes you just need to take that job in Sacramento to get things started.

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#75

Post by [deleted] »

jimmydddd wrote: post #49
Mikeb85 wrote: post #16

Well my education is in economics and, in general, the way to solve a 'shortage' in labour is to raise wages. Of course, what they're really talking about is a shortage in engineers willing to do the job at the price they've specified, so they lobby the government to open up immigration to workers from abroad willing to work for less, while at the same time trying to push more and more kids into CS, so that the marke…

I agree with this point. A Rutgers University professor did some research on this issue. He is quoted as saying something like "just because I can't find a 60 inch flat screen TV for $100 doesn't mean there's a shortage of flat screen TVs."

[deleted]

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#76

Post by drakonandor »

skciva wrote: post #66

The article mentions 11.7% CS UK grads unemployed after 6 months. This doesn't surprise me nor does it concern me that the bottom ~10% of students are struggling to find work. What's giving them trouble is probably what plagued them in school: laziness. As a recent US grad in CS, most of my peers (in CS and outside) who couldn't find work after college slept walk through their classes and did next to no extracurricul…

I can't upvote this enough. I do suppose schools are partly to blame as well - harder exams, harder projects, more people failed is the answer. I've seen Junior year Comp Eng's who somehow passed Digital Logic and Computer Architecture but still don't understand the basic concept of flip flops. Same story with Data Structures classes not being graded hard enough.

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#77

Post by CompanionCuube »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #68
muninn_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, not all the great programs are on the coasts. Any Big 10 school (carrying on with the football reference lol) is going to be at least decent, and a few are world class: Carnegie Mellon (not a Big 10 school I know) #1 globally Michigan Illinois Northwestern Purdue Wisconsin Ohio State to name a few.

I can say that Carnegie Mellon is definitely ranked nationally a Top 10 university in computer engineering and/or computer science.

>I can say that Carnegie Mellon is definitely ranked nationally a Top 10 university in computer engineering and/or computer science.

And it is just one of the numerous examples of non-coastal universities who run quality undergraduate programs producing graduates with the tech skills mentioned by the article.

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#78

Post by koder2016 »

werty1 wrote: post #71
linkregister wrote: post #34

Can someone speak specifically about the UK software market? We seem to wrongly be making statements about the US market, which this article is not about. From what I've heard it's dismally underpaid in the UK; I have also heard the perspective that costs of living are dramatically lower outside London, and matched with longer vacations and shorter working hours, it evens out.

The UK doesn't really value software. Costs of living are lower outside of London somewhat, but not in anywhere you can get a decent software job. Shorter working hours doesn't really apply. Yes, we may be paid for 40 hours, but we still have tons to do. At the companies I've worked at not a single dev works less than 10 hours per day, not to mention the out of hours work that needs to be done. Longer vacations - wel…

What? I don't know a single developer out of ~10 across multiple companies that would have to work more than 8 hours plus 1hour lunch break. Outside of London you get 37.5 hours weeks. Hell, I know contractors who work 1-2 days a week from home! But yeah, the money is crap mostly.

Re: If there's a tech skills shortage, why so many computer graduates unemployed?

#79

Post by wingless »

criley2 wrote: post #41
noamsml wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low wages? Silicon valley engineers tend to be fairly highly paid...

> Silicon valley engineers tend to be fairly highly paid... I mean, yes the worlds most pre-eminent software developer culture demands high prices. What about the 98% (fake statistic) of American software developers who do not live in or around San Francisco ...?

Even they aren't paid that highly. Most of them make chump change compared to a world class lawyer or a doctor.

I guess we can thank Steve Jobs for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

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