Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#61

Post by lucozade » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:52 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #46

Looks like a pr stunt. But, here is another point of view (perhaps it can help, i'd love to see html 5 support improve on iOS). Internet Access is a "human right" and according to the United Nations ( https://www.article19.org/data/files/Internet_Statement_Adop... ) , they condemn countries that intentionally take away or disrupt its citizens’ internet access. Perhaps by not allowing "basic internet access" ( html 5…

Currently in the UK there is some controversy about human rights legislation and it being used inappropriately.

I think human rights legislation is fundamental. As such I really, really hope no-one ever uses it for something like this, even worse to win a case. It demeans it to use it to save someone having to write a bit extra code to have their commercial application sell better in China.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#62

Post by aviraldg » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:52 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #45

It's really hard to believe that Apple is holding back the 'mobile web' when it's shown time and time again that they have the best performing web platform in the market. It was true when iPhone was introduced in 2008, it was true in 2015[0] and it is still true now[1]. "In a nutshell, the fastest known Android device available today -- and there are millions of Android devices much slower than that out there -- perf…

How are the two related at all? You point at the performance of Apple's browsers and imply that means they are likely spec-compliant as well.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#63

Post by aljones » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:52 PM UTC

geocar wrote: post #31

daenney wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly? How so? I'm also very curious about the monopoly. iOS has an estimated 13% market share.

Apple is the single biggest manufacturer with a 41% share of the US market. http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Market-Rankings/comScore-Re...

Do you believe this makes them a monopoly?

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#64

Post by madeofpalk » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:54 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #52

kbart wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt you could pass HTML5 compatibility as a "basic internet access".

HTML 5 IS part of the web, so why shouldn't it? By not having several html 5 functions, you actually disallow access/usage to certain websites.

Lets be honest here, are you saying that a web-based real-time-communications API is a basic human right?

> Apple has no reason to "not" include it, except financial gain.

The reason they have not to include it is that they have different priorities than browser vendors who want to jam mobile browsers full of every unripe API under the sun (like those that dangerously leak user's real connection info even when behind a VPN).

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#65

Post by NicoJuicy » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:54 PM UTC

lucozade wrote: post #61

NicoJuicy wrote: post #46

Looks like a pr stunt. But, here is another point of view (perhaps it can help, i'd love to see html 5 support improve on iOS). Internet Access is a "human right" and according to the United Nations ( https://www.article19.org/data/files/Internet_Statement_Adop... ) , they condemn countries that intentionally take away or disrupt its citizens’ internet access. Perhaps by not allowing "basic internet access" ( html 5…

Currently in the UK there is some controversy about human rights legislation and it being used inappropriately. I think human rights legislation is fundamental. As such I really, really hope no-one ever uses it for something like this, even worse to win a case. It demeans it to use it to save someone having to write a bit extra code to have their commercial application sell better in China.

I understand your point of view and you are probably right.

But to my opinion, everyone here knows Apple is blocking HTML 5 somewhat and there is almost nothing we can do about it.

PS. General public/buyers don't know and i already changed from iOS, because "add to homescreen" doesn't work as well as on Android

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#66

Post by kbart » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:54 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #52

kbart wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt you could pass HTML5 compatibility as a "basic internet access".

HTML 5 IS part of the web, so why shouldn't it? By not having several html 5 functions, you actually disallow access/usage to certain websites.

Apple doesn't provide Internet access -- ISPs do. Nobody forces you to choose Apple's products, there are plenty of others to choose from.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#67

Post by olavgg » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:55 PM UTC

aeharding wrote: post #50

NicoJuicy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they should do more about HTML 5 features ( which is holding back the mobile web) instead of js execution. This just means they can do it, but they won't due to own personal gains

Or at least allow other browsers to compete on the platform.

This!!!! I cannot believe that Apple is allowed (even by EU) to only allow their own browser on App Store. Having a choice is always good.

If it was Microsoft, the story would have been completely different today.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#68

Post by amluto » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:55 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #41

sturgill wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel the same way about Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer and trying to crush all competition in the browser market? Or do you only feel this way because it's Apple's sandbox? At least with Microsoft you _could_ install Netscape. What's your choice here? Buy an Android? I don't know you; this is a legitimate question. I don't actually know that I have an opinion on the underlying issue (I'm quite libertaria…

> Do you feel the same way about Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer and trying to crush all competition in the browser market? Not a comparison. Windows was effectively a monopoly at the time where iOS is a strong but far from dominating force in mobile. However if you want to make this comparison, honestly? Yes. I think the suit against Microsoft was justified simply because of how blatantly obvious their practice…

This is a strange claim you're making. Squeezing out competition is bad, but banning competition in the first place is okay?

Would it have been okay if Microsoft had charged a 30% tax on all sales of anything (software and content) consumable on the Windows platform on day one?

Or what if the very first iPhone had a provision that for the rest of your life you were not permitted to buy a competing smartphone or participate in the development of one? If enforceable, Android might never have happened. Would that make it okay?

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#69

Post by cowsandmilk » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:58 PM UTC

kbart wrote: post #49

NicoJuicy wrote: post #46

Looks like a pr stunt. But, here is another point of view (perhaps it can help, i'd love to see html 5 support improve on iOS). Internet Access is a "human right" and according to the United Nations ( https://www.article19.org/data/files/Internet_Statement_Adop... ) , they condemn countries that intentionally take away or disrupt its citizens’ internet access. Perhaps by not allowing "basic internet access" ( html 5…

I really doubt you could pass HTML5 compatibility as a "basic internet access".

obviously the standards process moves slower than innovation on web technologies, but many of the things that iOS doesn't support are not yet standards. E.g. WebRtc, which Nexedi's link shows had an update to the draft in September, so clearly it is not yet stabilized. The legal basis for requiring compatibility seems much thinner for complying with working drafts (or a working group note, edited August 31, September 7, and September 15, in the case of the webm link).

I mean, what level of compatibility should you have with a document that says:

> Implementors who are not taking part in the discussions are likely to find the specification changing out from under them in incompatible ways.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#70

Post by madeofpalk » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 12:59 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #60

madeofpalk wrote: post #45

It's really hard to believe that Apple is holding back the 'mobile web' when it's shown time and time again that they have the best performing web platform in the market. It was true when iPhone was introduced in 2008, it was true in 2015[0] and it is still true now[1]. "In a nutshell, the fastest known Android device available today -- and there are millions of Android devices much slower than that out there -- perf…

Speed is an important metric, but only up to a point. Once a browser renders a page faster than a user can interact with it any further improvement has very little impact. Any phone released in the past year or two meets that criteria for a well constructed page (obviously a badly written site is always going to perform badly, even on the best hardware.) So, while it may be true that an Android phone is 5x slower tha…

As pages get more and more complex (say, because they have new fancy HTML5 APIs) that performance actually begins to matter, right?

I'm a web developer and I don't feel like iOS Safari is holding me back in producing the types of web experiences that myself or my clients are looking for. They're not asking for HTML5 Gamepad support. Instead, they just want an image carousel - Chrome doesn't support that but Safari does http://caniuse.com/#search=snap.