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The fight over transparency in the meat industry

nytimes.com

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Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#171

Post by newscracker »

This can be put quite simply - ethics has several monetary costs that being unethical skips. That gets reflected in the prices consumers see. People are used to opting for cheaper things and don't get to know the hidden costs to others involved (human and non-human). As long as more people aren't willing to vote with their wallets (at the minimum) and also consider changing their habits and lifestyle (even gradually, if not overnight), there's not much hope for improvement.

Talking only about humans, without changes in habits, there's a lot more human suffering waiting in the future due to environmental issues, health issues, lack of food, lack of fresh water, etc. (many caused by or made worse by animal agriculture). As always, those will affect the poorer people disproportionately. Those who care about humans and are privileged enough to choose things in life could do a lot more, even if it's one habit a day that builds up over time.

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#172

Post by ekzy »

tomp wrote: post #151
ekzy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video made me vegetarian eight months ago. Then I watched Cowspiracy. And then I started to read more about the meat industry. There is no going back when you realise how fucked up this industry is. HN fellows, we are willing to make the world a better place, right? How about not taking part in one of the worst crimes in history?

That's about as effective as saying that Americans should stop working so they won't support US wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia and Syria with their taxes. In other words, it won't work until you give people a reasonable alternative (lab-grown meat, anyone?).

Not an alternative as you may imagine it, but thought you might be interested in it: https://www.huel.com/

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#173

Post by tjic »

nkoren wrote: post #96
tjic wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you're intrigued! Feel free to reach my by email with any questions! > Do you not get cognitive dissonance from killing "your children"? Well, first, they're not my children. I don't mean that flippantly, and it's a great question to ask, it's just that my answer is: my wife is my wife, my dogs are my dogs (and, yes, family), pigs are livestock...and chickens are sort of walking squawking vegetables. :) I should…

Thank you for writing this. If one is going to eat meat, this is how one should do it. I myself would not do this, and therefore (and for a few other tangential reasons), I'm a vegetarian. But I fully respect how you're living. If you're going to be a carnivore, BE a carnivore. Don't be under any illusions to the contrary. You talk about having a dissociative experience, but it sounds like, on the whole, you're havin…

FWIW, even though I choose to live an omnivorous life, I have the highest respect for vegetarians.

I've met people who say "I enjoy meat, but I could never kill an animal".

Fuck you. You kill animals every day by eating meat; you're just too squeamish to face up to the ethics of what you're doing.

So, hats off to all the vegetarians out there. You reached an ethical conclusion and you do the hard work to live it. Mad respect.

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#174

Post by tjic »

kbart wrote: post #166
tjic wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you're intrigued! Feel free to reach my by email with any questions! > Do you not get cognitive dissonance from killing "your children"? Well, first, they're not my children. I don't mean that flippantly, and it's a great question to ask, it's just that my answer is: my wife is my wife, my dogs are my dogs (and, yes, family), pigs are livestock...and chickens are sort of walking squawking vegetables. :) I should…

"The way you slaughter a pig is shoot them in the forehead. This gives them a concussion and drops them, but does not kill them." I'm not a farmer (though your lifestyle is a dream of mine), but couldn't you just use bigger caliber? I'm sure .45 would do the trick. Shooting and killing a pig instantly in one blow is one thing, but putting a knife through a still living creature.. that would be too much for me.

You don't want the pig to die instantly; you want it unconscious and unable to feel pain... but you want the heart still alive. The heart pumps blood which exsanguinates the animal after you slice it's aorta.

This allows you to collect the blood for some other use, and removes it from the veins and arteries in the muscle tissue.

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#175

Post by tjic »

kazagistar wrote: post #160
nkoren wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for writing this. If one is going to eat meat, this is how one should do it. I myself would not do this, and therefore (and for a few other tangential reasons), I'm a vegetarian. But I fully respect how you're living. If you're going to be a carnivore, BE a carnivore. Don't be under any illusions to the contrary. You talk about having a dissociative experience, but it sounds like, on the whole, you're havin…

I don't think he was using the word that way. I interpreted "dissociation" as the more clinical and formally defined psychological term for a mental state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)

exactly

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#176

Post by tjic »

countingteeth wrote: post #147
korethr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because of my ethics re animals, if I'm going to take a life, I want to use every last bit of the animal. This meant capturing the gallons of blood in a five gallon bucket. I buy whole chickens and part them out myself, and I do use every bit of the chicken that comes in the package. The bones are used for stocks, skin gets rendered for fat, etc. So I like to think I (can?) get using every last bit of the animal. B…

Where on earth did you get the idea that the viscera must be disposed or cannot be safely eaten? Pig intestines, heart, lungs are all part of traditional cuisine. Even the kidneys and liver are "viscera," and those are completely mainstream organ meat. Brain is also eaten (head cheese).

Agreed.

Photo of making blood pudding

https://goo.gl/photos/fUkkcmUxLXmopAQf6

Photo of preparing the heart before marinating it in olive oil and spices, then grilling it.

https://goo.gl/photos/T4MQZDpyEDVLgy7o7

Photo of pressed, sliced, and fried pig ears as a side to a sausage sandwhich

https://goo.gl/photos/me1rguNxWKXrmNLQ9

Photo of head cheese

https://goo.gl/photos/kHpyoDWJRxvDgHxW9

Photo of dog enjoying pig spine

https://goo.gl/photos/Wwpf9npvyvoKiBQN8

I use absolutely everything (well, except for the intestines. Not worth my time or energy to wash the feces out and scrape the mucousal lining off).

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#177

Post by kbart »

tjic wrote: post #174
kbart wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The way you slaughter a pig is shoot them in the forehead. This gives them a concussion and drops them, but does not kill them." I'm not a farmer (though your lifestyle is a dream of mine), but couldn't you just use bigger caliber? I'm sure .45 would do the trick. Shooting and killing a pig instantly in one blow is one thing, but putting a knife through a still living creature.. that would be too much for me.

You don't want the pig to die instantly; you want it unconscious and unable to feel pain... but you want the heart still alive. The heart pumps blood which exsanguinates the animal after you slice it's aorta. This allows you to collect the blood for some other use, and removes it from the veins and arteries in the muscle tissue.

Doesn't hanging a carcass with open veins drain enough blood?

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#178

Post by in_the_sticks »

1457389 wrote: post #100
in_the_sticks wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't eat veggies because their production causes animal suffering. Ever hear of pesticide runoff?

plants -> livestock -> meat -> metabolic energy is less efficient than plants->metabolic energy. In the interest of minimizing suffering caused there is an obviously superior approach to providing our society with metabolic energy. Your move.

Nah, you've proved unwilling to entertain other viewpoints so I'll save my breath.

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#179

Post by tjic »

kbart wrote: post #177
tjic wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want the pig to die instantly; you want it unconscious and unable to feel pain... but you want the heart still alive. The heart pumps blood which exsanguinates the animal after you slice it's aorta. This allows you to collect the blood for some other use, and removes it from the veins and arteries in the muscle tissue.

Doesn't hanging a carcass with open veins drain enough blood?

No.

Re: The fight over transparency in the meat industry

#180

Post by tjic »

tluyben2 wrote: post #140
tjic wrote: post #10

As I mentioned in another thread, I live on a farm. (I hack Ruby and C++ as a day job, the farm is just a hobby). One major reason for doing so is animal welfare. I'm a meat eater and will staunchly defend it...but factory farming is terrible. At this point we get most of our meat from our own pastures: chicken, goat, lamb, pork. It's much more expensive than buying factory farmed meat, and even more expensive (in la…

We started out making our own farm for animals (pigs + chickens) but we figured we actually liked the little buggers (what you describe as watching them grow etc, for me, especially with pigs, makes them the same level as dogs and the hypocritical west is as the hypocritical west does which I couldn't really stomach) and went vegetarian anyway. Don't miss meat at all (don't actually like it anymore), but that's not t…

Sounds great!

We also grow hops and apples.

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