Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges • Hacker News Board

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#41

Post by Gibbon1 » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 4:56 AM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #11

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #3

Is the distinction between this page and the kind of things posted on craigslist, strictly that the posters had to pay to list their ads? Or do prostitutes not post on craigslist? AFAIK Newmark hasn't had to deal with any of this. I'd be interested to know if there is something similar and legal in countries that allow prostitution (Netherlands?). Seems like they were making a lot of revenue for what is basically ill…

A guess: fta, 99% of revenue was from sex ads. I don't think there's a bright line, but craigslist is a many-faceted business that has a small percentage of revenue from prostitution. Backpages is just a prostitution marketplace.

Unless Craigslist has changed their model 0% is from prostitution since I think they only charge for house and job listings.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#42

Post by decilios » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 4:57 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #36

1024core wrote: post #21

Why is it that in such cases, the government reaches for the CEO right away; but when Wells Fargo employees open millions of fraudulent accounts, it's not the CEO's fault? If I were to commit identity theft (which is basically what the WF employees did), then I would be facing jail time; why hasn't anyone in WF been charged with criminal fraud yet? Why not the CEO?

You're comparing apples and oranges. The CEO of a small internet company almost certainly has a hand in everything the company does. The CEO of a large corporation has no idea what the line workers are doing.[1] If a bunch of Yahoo employees had gone off and run as sex-trafficking site off Yahoo's servers, they wouldn't go arrest Marissa Mayer. Not because "lobbying" but because that would be stupid and unreasonable.…

Logical answer right here. No conspiracy theories, for once.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#43

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 4:58 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #13

seibelj wrote: post #5

Even if you are morally opposed to prostitution, is there really any benefit to authorities when you remove a centralized location and move it to the street or many different websites? If you really want to manage the prostitution "problem", having it all on a single website seems like a benefit for managing and researching the issue.

Most sex workers agree that their safety is improved dramatically by having the business side of it out in the open. And, there have been studies on sex worker safety that indicate strongly that legal prostitution is safer for everyone; it also reduces coercion when it is not underground (women don't need a pimp, if law enforcement is on their side). Since I started paying attention a few years ago, I've noticed that…

I think mutual consent and money for sex are probably fine.

The problem is that reality isn't black and white. Trafficking is very real, especially in Chinese communities, where victims are shuffled all over the place on cheap intercity busses.

These are complex problems, and the typical HN lazze faire approach doesn't address that complexity.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#44

Post by ben_jones » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 4:59 AM UTC

jgunsch wrote: post #33

> One of the advertisers, identified only as 15-year-old "E.S.," ''was forced into prostitution at the age of 13 by her pimp," according to an affidavit filed with the complaint. She used other online advertising services until they were shut down, the court filing says, when she turned to Backpage. This reads horribly: the feds took down multiple sites and knew about this 15-year-old, but didn't manage to reach her…

It was my impression that sites like Backpage were massive "honey pots" that feds and local law enforcement used to contain and frequently thwart illicit activities such as prostitution. It seems like they are taken down at arbitrary times afterwards either after their usefulness as a law enforcement mechanism has diminished and, slight tin foil hat here, whenever an agency needs a "big bust" for political purposes. Go figure many are hurt in the process.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#45

Post by apr » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 5:01 AM UTC

tessierashpool wrote: post #20

FWIW, this headline is not completely accurate. The story itself says further down the page, "Ferrer was arrested on felony charges of pimping a minor, pimping, and conspiracy to commit pimping." None of these are actually trafficking charges; they're run-of-the-mill prostitution charges. There's also a story from a young girl who was forced into sex work, which is certainly awful, and some stuff about studies and cl…

It is unlikely that Ferrer was her pimp as it is usually understood. It looks like that the state wants to charge him as a pimp because he provided a venue for sex workers to advertise and therefore was effectively doing promotion. It is unclear at this point whether the court will agree with that interpretation or not. I am sure the 15 yo was brought into the charging documents as a sob story for the public (and later the jury) and to pressure the accused to make some sort of a plea deal.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#46

Post by cft » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 5:02 AM UTC

This was no more a prostitution website than Craigslist, before Craigslist struck a deal with attorney generals of several states to shut down its Adult Classifieds section [1]. In fact, given Craigslist scale it had many more prostitution (and probably child prostitution) ads. The question is: why Craig and this CEO were given such disparate treatment? Because the times have changed, or because Craigslist was much bigger and an arrest of Craig would have unleashed a huge wave of rage from free speech supporters as a violation of the principles of Section 230(c) of the Communications Decency Act, since classifieds sites are republishers, rather than publishers of content and should not be responsible for the classifieds content.

1. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/business/16craigslist.html :

"The sex ads cost $10 and were on track to bring in $44 million in revenue this year, according to the AIM Group, a consulting firm that closely monitors the company. Craigslist also charges for some real estate and job ads, but most listings are free"

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#47

Post by tn13 » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 5:03 AM UTC

1024core wrote: post #21

Why is it that in such cases, the government reaches for the CEO right away; but when Wells Fargo employees open millions of fraudulent accounts, it's not the CEO's fault? If I were to commit identity theft (which is basically what the WF employees did), then I would be facing jail time; why hasn't anyone in WF been charged with criminal fraud yet? Why not the CEO?

> Why is it that in such cases, the government reaches for the CEO right away;

War on sex is new War on Drugs. By going after the CEO they are setting a precedent. They want to make sure no investor would invest into something that challenges government authority.

Wells Fargo CEO will not be touched for the same reason why big banks get bailouts, Hillary clinton is not in jail and Obama is still a president despite killing thousands of innocent people around earth. They are too close to powers.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#48

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 5:03 AM UTC

tuxracer wrote: post #34

niftich wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's idealism on both sides of the argument. On one hand, there are those who believe that conducting these arrangements in the open is safer for all involved parties. On the other hand, there are those who believe that sex work can never truly be consensual, because even if consent is given, a sex worker may have felt pressured to seek this life because all other choices available to them to make a living and att…

> there are those who believe that sex work can never truly be consensual...idealized circumstances free of such pressures, few people would choose sex work In idealized circumstances free of economic pressures many of us would spent all day at the beach. It's great many found their dream career and are getting paid to do what they love. But for most what work is just work, a means to an end. Not sure why sex workers…

[deleted]

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#49

Post by mjevans » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 5:07 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #23

SwellJoe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most sex workers agree that their safety is improved dramatically by having the business side of it out in the open. And, there have been studies on sex worker safety that indicate strongly that legal prostitution is safer for everyone; it also reduces coercion when it is not underground (women don't need a pimp, if law enforcement is on their side). Since I started paying attention a few years ago, I've noticed that…

"Most sex workers agree that their safety is improved dramatically by having the business side of it out in the open. And, there have been studies on sex worker safety that indicate strongly that legal prostitution is safer for everyone; it also reduces coercion when it is not underground (women don't need a pimp, if law enforcement is on their side)." I did a lot of research on that in college for some legalizing pr…

It also seems logical that having a market in the sunlight makes a 'black market' for the same goods much less appealing.

I have to further speculate that the same type of 'impact' we see from legalizing 'recreational use' would also be mirrored with this topic; possibly to an even more positive degree.

Re: Backpage Raided, CEO Arrested on Sex-Trafficking Charges

#50

Post by DavidWanjiru » Fri, Oct 07, 2016, 5:09 AM UTC

Question: If Bernie Madoff had advertised his pyramid scheme in, say, the New York Times, can the paper be held responsible for subsequent losses suffered by those who took up the offer made in the advert?

Is this case legally similar, or do the specific crimes of human trafficking make it different? You know, sort of like how contracts are ordinarily enforceable, but if I agree to marry off my 12-year-old daughter to you, that "contract" is not enforceable.