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We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

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Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#61

Post by SanPedroGrouch »

binarymax wrote: post #13

The comment that kept jumping out at me was using a bucket as a shower. I was living in Thailand for about 1.5 years and apart from my lavish westernized apartment in Bangkok, about half the places I stayed in had buckets for showers. The first time I used one I kind of complained, but I got used to it quickly. Then, when I moved back to England, my girlfriend at the time lived in a council flat. There was a bathtub…

As an American I need to ask what is a council flat? Is that like what we might call "public housing"? (Cheap, often low-quality)

And how did you like life in Bangkok?

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#62

Post by exit »

potatolicious wrote: post #16

This article, IMHO, is written by someone who has no idea how things work just about anywhere that's not the industrialized West, and is shocked and appalled that things aren't as awesome as they are in the US of A. It's a also a reminder for those of us who live in such ridiculous comfort and freedom that it can get much, much worse. That being said, I think this article is sensationalist tripe: > "The idea that ‘wi…

> Privileged white collars shocked and dismayed that blue collar work can really, really suck. News at 11.

I know you have the entire article in mind when you say this, but your associated excerpt is a direct quotation from one of the factory workers.

> "We (who?) would respect us? We are ordered around and told what to do and what not to do. No one in management has ever asked us about anything. There is no discussion. You feel no respect."

So unless you question the authenticity of that quotation, i think you're being extremely dismissivie of not just the white-collar western observers who wrote and read this article.

Factory work may have given you a life beyond poverty. It may even have worked out for your mother, in the end. That says nothing of how much she suffered while working in those conditions.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#63

Post by jhancock »

jdminhbg wrote: post #58
jhancock wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments are pretty fair and your feelings on what your family went through in '60s Taiwan I take as genuine. However, it was not only hard work that bootstrapped Taiwan out of poverty. Some part of Taiwan's current comfort is due to moving its most extreme labor and environmental problems to other Asian countries, namely China. So now China and a few others are at the bottom of the supply chain...who do they pa…

"So now China and a few others are at the bottom of the supply chain...who do they pass the buck to to lift themselves out of these conditions?" Probably Vietnam, and then robots.

I include Vietnam in the current status of China. Robots would be cool. Although I have a high degree of respect for people that can make things in factories...it would be a shame to lose this skill set to robots.

Keep in mind that China is already in competition with places like Vietnam. China puts its own provinces in competition with each other in much the same way that states and municipalities in the U.S. compete for a new car factory, data, or distribution center. If China seriously ratchets up its labor protections, buyers will move elsewhere...to an extent...China still outguns everyone on population.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#64

Post by ErrantX »

SanPedroGrouch wrote: post #61
binarymax wrote: post #13

The comment that kept jumping out at me was using a bucket as a shower. I was living in Thailand for about 1.5 years and apart from my lavish westernized apartment in Bangkok, about half the places I stayed in had buckets for showers. The first time I used one I kind of complained, but I got used to it quickly. Then, when I moved back to England, my girlfriend at the time lived in a council flat. There was a bathtub…

As an American I need to ask what is a council flat? Is that like what we might call "public housing"? (Cheap, often low-quality) And how did you like life in Bangkok?

Yes you got it: cheap public housing. Councils are the local area authorities (either county or town level).

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#65

Post by chc »

peterwwillis wrote: post #31

14 and 15 year olds should not be working in sweatshops. what the hell is wrong with the people defending this? this isn't the pampered western worker vs the average 3rd world worker, this is kids being forced to go without sleep and effectively without a life for pennies. fuck that. i know most people will argue something like "they are probably lucky to get it." it's still bad for them, and trying to justify the ba…

I have empathy toward them and their harsh circumstances, but the thing I recognize is that the alternatives are mostly WORSE. In opinion writing, one of the key rules is that it's useless to simply complain about something — we have to offer a workable alternative. Failure to do this is one of the reasons why Bush's Iraq War was considered such a failure: He had a hugely successful plan to topple Saddam, but he didn't know where to go from there and lots of people suffered for it.

So I feel for people in bad conditions, but it's also important to have perspective about how bad "bad" can be.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#66

Post by dougp »

pyre wrote: post #50
potatolicious wrote: post #16

This article, IMHO, is written by someone who has no idea how things work just about anywhere that's not the industrialized West, and is shocked and appalled that things aren't as awesome as they are in the US of A. It's a also a reminder for those of us who live in such ridiculous comfort and freedom that it can get much, much worse. That being said, I think this article is sensationalist tripe: > "The idea that ‘wi…

>> "Security guards search workers' bags and pockets >> as they leave the factory." > > Same in the USA, especially in warehousing/supply > chain jobs. You're also forgetting casino workers. The people in casinos that handle money are all required for to have whatever purses/bags they bring to work be transparent (usually plastic). I've seen the same thing for workers at airports too. [ I was sitting at Newark in the…

I used to work at an amusement park that did that as well.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#67

Post by ErrantX »

peterwwillis wrote: post #31

14 and 15 year olds should not be working in sweatshops. what the hell is wrong with the people defending this? this isn't the pampered western worker vs the average 3rd world worker, this is kids being forced to go without sleep and effectively without a life for pennies. fuck that. i know most people will argue something like "they are probably lucky to get it." it's still bad for them, and trying to justify the ba…

I can understand your sentiment (Im sure I once shared it too). However please bear in mind this is a huge culture clash problem. Extended visits to the region will throw things in a new light (like it did for myself).

Now, clearly, conditions definitely are a problem in many places. However the general theory of working at 14/15 is more of a cultural thing and not an issue.

I don't think it's correct to dictate society rules such as "thou must not work under 16" just because we happened to stop that practice several years back. I find it a bit sadistic that we wish to dictate that sentiment to others...

Of course us then exploiting that work environment is a whole other problem.

Additionally; what's the solution? Stop all these kids working? What are they going to do? Really, seriously? Increased wages would be good - that is certainly something we should encourage.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#68

Post by JanezStupar »

potatolicious wrote: post #16

This article, IMHO, is written by someone who has no idea how things work just about anywhere that's not the industrialized West, and is shocked and appalled that things aren't as awesome as they are in the US of A. It's a also a reminder for those of us who live in such ridiculous comfort and freedom that it can get much, much worse. That being said, I think this article is sensationalist tripe: > "The idea that ‘wi…

My mother (1941 born), went to work 15 years old to sustain her mother and two siblings. She worked 16 hour workdays, 10 hour factory job and the rest working on a farm for shelter and food. She worked hard up to her 60's, never complaining about anything being too hard. She raised three kids and still accomplished a lot.

Her generation had it even harder than these kids (many of their peers do!), while enduring hunger and scarcity.

Looking on today's spoiled western civilization - I really can't help but to feel that we have it too well. I mean - leisure really ain't something humanity has been built for.

I predict that this Chinese generation will, ultimately prove as more satisfied and fulfilled than the one in 50 years.

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#69

Post by Quarrelsome »

SanPedroGrouch wrote: post #61
binarymax wrote: post #13

The comment that kept jumping out at me was using a bucket as a shower. I was living in Thailand for about 1.5 years and apart from my lavish westernized apartment in Bangkok, about half the places I stayed in had buckets for showers. The first time I used one I kind of complained, but I got used to it quickly. Then, when I moved back to England, my girlfriend at the time lived in a council flat. There was a bathtub…

As an American I need to ask what is a council flat? Is that like what we might call "public housing"? (Cheap, often low-quality) And how did you like life in Bangkok?

Yep. It used to be the case that council housing was given as part of social care and/or at subsidised rents. It still is, to a degree but nowhere near the amount it used to. Originally it was part of resettling the displaced population after WW2 and the bombing of the UK.

The Tories back in the 80's decided that "home owners" were Tory voters so introduced a "right to buy" scheme that enabled tenants to purchase their properties at discounted costs. This means that a lot of council property in the UK is now actually private property. A lot of people made a lot of money with these purchases due to the recent housing booms. However it is a case of location, location, location as some lost money as in some locations properties can be practically worthless (Hull or Burnley being examples).

Re: We are like prisoners... We do not have a life, only work.

#70

Post by Quarrelsome »

rajdevar wrote: post #15

i am feeling lucky to work in U.S.A (best country to work) after reading this..i think i shouldn't brag about a few extra hours i work.

"best country to work" have you heard of France? I think they have a maximum 30 hour work week. :O Although I guess this depends on your definition of "best" ;)
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