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Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#101

Post by bluedino »

wildmusings wrote: post #43
steven777400 wrote: post #19

The memory is that these old factory/manufacturing jobs were high paying (middle class), secure, and accessible to people of low intellect, minimal education, and limited social grace. The proposed replacements "caregivers, retail workers and customer-service representatives" are significantly lower wage and also require more "EQ" that the working man of the prior generation didn't need. The voters these politicians…

> Which is easy for a coastal educated person to say, but to a line of family men who have not just eschewed education but actively resisted it, this is a tough pill to swallow. I don't think it's so much a cultural thing as the high intellectual capabilities required for high paying knowledge jobs. Coding, for example, is just too hard for a huge segment of the population, regardless of how much training they get. I…

>> you need to make these jobs easier and accessible to more people, thus paying less but employing more.

Wouldn't a greater number of coders with lower abilities not work very well? Today's 10x programmers would become 20x or 50x

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#102

Post by Inconel »

duaneb wrote: post #73
choicewords wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is there is still plenty of hard, material stuff that needs to be made. Just look at SpaceX. It's cool, it's tech and it is most certainly hard material science. We won't be able to make it with just soft skills and software. Improving our material lives (including not wasting resources) matters.

Hard material science is light years from manufacturing jobs.

While true, aerospace is still probably one of the best skilled labor/manufacturing jobs available. There are quite a few regulations and certifications that need to be followed/held which makes it more difficult/costly to outsource.

In the case of SpaceX or similar companies that fall under ITAR or do classified work, meeting those security requirements is an additional hurdle to outsourcing, although automation will still have an impact.

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#103

Post by hulahoof »

Daishiman wrote: post #33
Houshalter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there aren't a finite number of factories. If more factory work gets automated, then it will reduce the cost of building more factories and producing even more goods. Whereas service jobs seem more finite. There is only a finite demand for burgers or shelf stockers, unless you increase the population. I really don't understand how a mostly service based economy is sustainable. In any case, the service based jobs…

There's a finite demand for goods too. I don't have unlimited room to fill my house with crap, and if I buy more advanced tools and things that replace a multitude of tools, my total demand will go down. It may be a generational thing, but I just don't see people owning or wanting to own as much stuff as the generation before. A desk full of organization tools like a rolodex, card holder, pencils and notebooks just d…

In a similar vein desks are now covered in speakers, USB drives, monitors, laptops etc which all have a lifecycle just as the Rolodex and card holder became obsolete.

These items are also harder to produce and have, at least in my eyes, shorter product life

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#104

Post by [deleted] »

helloworld wrote: post #10

I wasn't aware of these facts: -- [T]here can be no revival of American manufacturing, because there has been no collapse. Because of automation, there are far fewer jobs in factories. But the value of stuff made in America reached a record high in the first quarter of 2016, even after adjusting for inflation. -- [T]here were 64,000 steelworkers in America last year, and 820,000 home health aides.... Soon, we will be…

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#105

Post by madengr »

bsder wrote: post #47
andreiw wrote: post #36

Automation? Oh is that how you see Foxconn employees? That would explain quite a bit... Most of light and heavy manufacturing is done somewhere else. Electronics. Housewares. Clothing. Tools. Equipment. Cars. Materials, both raw and those undergoing technological processing. High tech. A service economy? That's nice - but there are only so many prostitutes, bank clerks and Mickey D employees required, so what is ever…

> Automation? Oh is that how you see Foxconn employees? That would explain quite a bit... Even if you "resurrect" manufacturing, automation means less people. Quoting: http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/blog/innovation/2015/0... "Perhaps most surprising about the HRPF was the relative lack of employees on the floor of the massive facility. While ATI employs about 2,500 throughout western Pennsylvania and eastern O…

Wow, cool facility. That is some automation.

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#106

Post by noobermin »

thesmallestcat wrote: post #49
golergka wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actively resisted it Honest question. Is this a reality or a degrading stereotype?

The entire comment is an absurd stereotype, and about what you'd expect to find in this forum. Manufacturing jobs weren't (and aren't) filled with a bunch of meatheads coloring by numbers any more than are construction jobs.

>about what you'd expect to find in this forum

I disagree, you find a diverse set of viewpoints on HN, this isn't representative. The fact that a distillation of r/theredpill dogma is the top comment is upsetting to me, but then again, I have come to expect that when the number of comments exceeds the number of upvotes on a story, such stories are more of a lightning rod of politicizing than it is substantial conversation.

Eventually the up/down votes equalizes it out. There are a couple of interesting comments below this that shock discuss the content of the article and probably will take this comment's place.

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#107

Post by [deleted] »

dogma1138 wrote: post #87
asperous wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the upper bound on manufacturing jobs would be the cost of automation.

Automation isn't the enemy of manufacturing these days as much as decentralized manufacturing is. Once 3D printing evolves to the point of being suitable to print everyday items it would kill a lot of jobs all across the supply chain the manufacturing industry.

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#108

Post by brchr »

Here, for instance, is a graph of manufacturing jobs per capita in the US:

https://www.numer.al/us_bls_data/figures/manufacturing-emplo...

It’s quite clear that manufacturing jobs have just been slowly and steadily disappearing over the past 70+ years.

Viewed at this scale, the debate over the bump in the last 6 years seems totally silly. Moreover it’s hard to imagine a policy that would turn that kind of trend around.

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#109

Post by noobermin »

brchr wrote: post #108

Here, for instance, is a graph of manufacturing jobs per capita in the US: https://www.numer.al/us_bls_data/figures/manufacturing-emplo... It’s quite clear that manufacturing jobs have just been slowly and steadily disappearing over the past 70+ years. Viewed at this scale, the debate over the bump in the last 6 years seems totally silly. Moreover it’s hard to imagine a policy that would turn that kind of trend aroun…

It is very easy to zoom out an fit a line but the step like changes at certain points are interesting. Averaging over the variations might throw away a lot of interesting information.

But you are right about one thing, the curve has not dipped up appreciably in the last 30 years. All I see are steps, plateau's where the level is kept before the next drop.

EDIT: can't do math or I keep thinking it's 2000's still.

Re: Why Are Politicians So Obsessed with Manufacturing?

#110

Post by brchr »

noobermin wrote: post #109
brchr wrote: post #108

Here, for instance, is a graph of manufacturing jobs per capita in the US: https://www.numer.al/us_bls_data/figures/manufacturing-emplo... It’s quite clear that manufacturing jobs have just been slowly and steadily disappearing over the past 70+ years. Viewed at this scale, the debate over the bump in the last 6 years seems totally silly. Moreover it’s hard to imagine a policy that would turn that kind of trend aroun…

It is very easy to zoom out an fit a line but the step like changes at certain points are interesting. Averaging over the variations might throw away a lot of interesting information. But you are right about one thing, the curve has not dipped up appreciably in the last 30 years. All I see are steps, plateau's where the level is kept before the next drop. EDIT: can't do math or I keep thinking it's 2000's still.

Agreed that it'd be interesting to try to figure out what explains those cycles and steps. Recessions in general? Would be interesting to see what correlated with those points in time.
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