Not OK, Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Not OK, Google

#261

Post by rch » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:53 PM UTC

ubercore wrote: post #11

Google Now has done the same for me, told me how long it will take to get to a bar I frequent. My reaction was quite exactly "Oh that's neat, thanks!" and I went and had a great burger that night. Totally OK for me Google. I respect that people have different privacy thresholds, but I think the fact that it's different for everyone is being lost in articles like this.

I met a good friend and current employer because Google Now told me about an event I might be interested in a couple of years ago.

Of course it also once told me how long it would take to get to an ex's house from my current girlfriend's place.

How about an 'OK, funny once' command?

Re: Not OK, Google

#262

Post by lubujackson » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:53 PM UTC

I think there are two problems with this suite of crap from Google: the privacy issues and the fact that Google is putting corporate objectives ahead of creating useful things.

It's clear Google wants to "own the home" and all their products were built to further this goal (rather than be useful themselves). This is why Google bought Nest for 12 jillion dollars. And it's why the iWatch failed and Google Glass failed - right now, these are niche products that barely have purpose.

Now this stuff may become integral to our lives, as depicted in so many sci-fi stories, but if they become embedded in our lives and are wholly owned by one huge company, that should be terrifying to everyone.

Here are some real world reasons why: a virus is installed on your Google box through your wifi - now house robbers know everything about your schedule and habits. Your parent goes through your every personal action to make sure you aren't getting in trouble. A spouse uses the system to track your every movement and make sure you aren't cheating. And of course, the gov't has access to all of this data by default. Imagine being a famous celebrity with every action in your house known and accessible to any gov't peon with access and a bit of curiousity. This isn't some conspiracy theory, this is exactly the access Snowden had (and he was a contractor).

It isn't what these products are, it's the direction they represent: complete surveillance of every personal action, stored and owned by one monolithic corporation and the government. And not only is this is sort of where we are heading, it's Google's clearly stated objective.

It reminds me of the 50s when plastics were going to revolutionize everything... which they did, but we melted off the ozone layer before realizing the consequences of slapping new technology across the world. Especially when the benefits are so minimal and the threats are so real - imagine McCarthy with the type of access and control these devices would provide if Google succeeds in pushing this across 80% of homes.

Re: Not OK, Google

#263

Post by quickben » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:53 PM UTC

daemonk wrote: post #42

I am not trying to inject my opinion. I am looking for genuine discussion. The idea of privacy has always been kind of vague to me. Where do we draw the line of acceptable information sharing and not? If a company is collecting data on our behavior and changing their practices accordingly to maximize their profits, is that immoral? Isn't that essentially A/B testing? The practice of using that data in a potentially m…

It wont be used for A/B testing only. Governments tend to get data and oppress people based on it. Where it comes from rarely matters on that level. You may live in a country that right now doesn't do it, but historically, and currently in other parts of the world, it's a very ongoing theme.

So you can not say 'world hunger doesn't exist because I just had a large sandwich', the issue is more global.

We are just not that evolved yet, and if near 100% aren't where you expect them to be, then you can't assume anything else.

Re: Not OK, Google

#264

Post by 0xmohit » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

_wp3r wrote: post #192

problems wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This location history is really bad though. I added a test gmail account to my device a few weeks ago, but didn't remember location tracking was a per-account setting - now Google has nice big logs to hand whoever wants them and I can only delete them on a day-by-day basis (from the Android app at least). Extremely annoying. This sort of thing should not be acceptable, an honest mistake results in every place I've be…

Find Google settings in one of these places (depending on your device): In your Settings app Settings, scroll down and tap Google. Open a separate app called Google Settings Google Settings. Tap Location and then Location History. At the bottom of the screen, tap Delete Location History. Also https://maps.google.com/locationhistory allows for delete all history.

What makes you think that deleting location history actually deletes the history? Reminds one of the group of students called Europe v. Facebook [0]:

  Schrems described the file obtained through a legal request as
  a 500MB PDF including data the user thought they had
  deleted. The one sent through a regular Facebook request was a
  150MB HTML file and included video (the PDF did not) but did
  not have the deleted data.

[0] https://searchenginewatch.com/sew/news/2114059/facebook-file

Re: Not OK, Google

#265

Post by Beltiras » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

I've long since given up hope that I can achieve any sort of privacy. Even were I to do my utmost I will still be on the periphery of others using tech, visible through their actions. The only thing I really want is for the content of my messages to be private. This can be achieved through end-to-end encryption. I push everyone around me to install and use Signal instead of Messenger or Google Talk.

Re: Not OK, Google

#266

Post by Klathmon » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #229

zardeh wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you trust every single person at Google, and every single person at every third party company Google shares your data with, now and in perpetuity, to never abuse the data collected on you? Personally, my circle of trust is not that large. (Have worked at google in the past, may in the future, am not currently). You say this as though anyone at Google (or Microsoft or whatever) can go in and search for 'falcolas'…

> [...] which is not an attack on Google's infrastructure This strikes me as a matter of semantics; does it really matter if I'm targeted whether they hacked my account or hacked Google? > I'm honestly not sure if there is a single individual at the company who had that power. Think harder. Who has the root access to the servers holding the data? Could the existing infrastructure and data segregation ever change? How…

I'm sorry but if you think that far ahead, then how do you do anything?

Do you go out in public? because if you do, some company could be recording you on CCTV, and the company that makes the CCTV equipment could sell the business to Google who could update it to use the CCTV footage in AI learning, which means that someone could eventually lookup your face and see you were at a smut store 6 years ago.

At some point you need to draw the line, there is no perfect privacy.

Re: Not OK, Google

#267

Post by mcguire » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

infodroid wrote: post #145

wj wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you visit a place of business you are potentially under surveillance. I'm sure there is a distinction but I'm failing to come up with it right now. I was somewhat radical about privacy in the late 90s (only person I knew that read every EULA) and am still a supporter of the EFF but I don't really understand the issue here.

> If you visit a place of business you are potentially under surveillance. I'm sure there is a distinction but I'm failing to come up with it right now. A business is typically located in a public space, where there is no expectation of privacy. In contrast, a home is by definition a private space where there is a strong expectation of privacy.

Exactly! In a public space, you can expect someone to be collecting data about you, even if it's only photographing you in the background. In a private space, you expect no one to be collecting data about you, except the people you are directly interacting with.

Aren't there some wiretapping laws around this sort of thing?

Re: Not OK, Google

#268

Post by Oletros » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

ProAm wrote: post #253

Oletros wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have put a link about Yahoo! and that link says nothing about Google or others doing the same

No, its safe to say all major tech company's have have NSL's, and are required to allow the government to search and request data, it would be foolish to think otherwise. [1] [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/05/technology/subpoenas-and-g...

Are you aware that your new link doesn't talk about unfettered access?

Re: Not OK, Google

#269

Post by irq-1 » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

spac wrote: post #72

I'm confused as to why in this thread there's very little contrastive commentary on the different stance taken by Apple and Google about privacy. Apple has made preserving user privacy a paramount goal, investing in research and technology to achieve it with minimal loss (however much it is) of (intelligent) functionality. I find that a very strong point for the Cupertino based company. (edited for legibility)

Apple wants (or wanted?) control for themselves. DRM everything; control the products after sale; wall the garden. They became the thing they hated back in 1984.

After Snowden made Apples collaboration with the government economically untenable, Apple may now be willing to let users have control. They fought the FBI to protect privacy on a transparently political charade. They've built hardware and software key protection into the iPhone.

But this is a change, and maybe it's a lie, or maybe it will change back, or maybe they just won't succeed. I'm not rushing out to buy a Mac Book.

Re: Not OK, Google

#270

Post by sireat » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

ubercore wrote: post #11

Google Now has done the same for me, told me how long it will take to get to a bar I frequent. My reaction was quite exactly "Oh that's neat, thanks!" and I went and had a great burger that night. Totally OK for me Google. I respect that people have different privacy thresholds, but I think the fact that it's different for everyone is being lost in articles like this.

I am actually quite uncomfortable that my stock Android is making suggestions on how long it should take for me to get home or work (when I have never explicitly mentioned that it is my home or work).

The problem is that I want to use Google Maps so what choice do I really have?

Sure I use a dedicated gmail for my phone but that really does not help much.