I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words. • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#101

Post by DanBC » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:05 PM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #93

bbarn wrote: post #58

Pardon my ignorance, as it's never been relevant to his work, but where does Pieter live? In the US there's a chance posting that would get the police to your door, sadly.

That US and their silly ideas. What are they gonna do? Shoot you for wanting euthanasia? Also, he's from Belgium. Also, at this point, it's more of a peaceful way to leave than the agony of letting cancer do it slowly and painfully from within your body.

> What are they gonna do? Shoot you for wanting euthanasia?

Arrest any doctors and nurses involved and prosecute them for assisting with a suicide, and pursue professional de-registration of those clinicians.

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#102

Post by nsxwolf » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #91

dredmorbius wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with virtually every point and value you express here. Nonetheless, a part of Pieter's public announcement is an opportunity to discuss what he is doing, and what others or ourselves might eventually face, in language and metaphors that are meaningful and particular to ourselves. I'd prefer your comments didn't get voted to oblivion.

I agree with your call for a discussion, but that requires good faith and empathy, both of which that comment was lacking. It's possible to disagree with his decision without calling late-stage euthanasia an "easy button".

Poster shouldn't have called it an "easy button", but I think there should be one surviving comment on here that stands in opposition to euthanasia, so I'll just leave this here:

I am morally opposed to euthanasia.

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#103

Post by creshal » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

frederikvs wrote: post #55

Sad to read this. And actually also a bit surprised, considering that 2 weeks ago he posted an article that mentioned "This is a short book more than an article. I'll continue to revise it over time, according to your comments." http://hintjens.com/blog:125

Correctly predicting timing is hard with cancer.

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#104

Post by anexprogrammer » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:15 PM UTC

arkades wrote: post #51

fsloth wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all die at some point. While I too abhor cancer I find hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. The universe is out to get us - we've evolved into tough bastard but we've not defeated mortality.

> hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. Hm. I wonder your age. Young folk seem to think death impossibly foreign, and fear it / ignore it all equally. Older folk, that have had more first-hand experience with the decline of the flesh in themselves and those they grew up with, have more an appreciation for the difference between an abrupt death in a car accident, a…

The only way to win is not to play. I'm past 50. I'm not overly fussed about dying, it's not like it's avoidable. I'm not overly fussed about how either as I'll get what I'm given. Of course I'd prefer a pain-free exit rather than a 2 year painful decline to incoherent as my father had. Unless you go in your sleep I suspect all routes have pain as the final memory. I have no fear of any of it.

The only thing actually on my radar is being aware I have limited time, and am past half-way.

For those who die slowly, or lose faculties, the process seems unfair. For those who have a sudden exit the event seems unfair and can leave much unresolved and unsaid.

Euthanasia, to me, seems to be the least worst option if I should ever find myself facing a drawn out exit. I get a bit frustrated those professing relgion like to play the "you must not" card. It's not their business unless I share their belief, which I don't.

So I'll get the exit the universe decides. One day I'll be part of a star.

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#105

Post by Lambdanaut » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

jwildeboer wrote: post #33

I have known Pieter since around 2002. We didn't meet or talk that often, but usually we would have a fun few hours every FOSDEM. On one of those occasions we defined "our" religion, stallmanism.com Pieter transferred the site and domain to me a few days ago. In the past few months I have been almost obsessed with consuming everything he wrote and published. It is exactly my way of thinking. Of questioning reality an…

I'm just discovering him, and reading through his blog.

His writing is just what I needed right now, at this time in my life. Particularly about how to be happy.

I think when you've lived such a prolific life, you don't need any last words. His life's work speaks for itself.

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#106

Post by fsloth » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

Artoemius wrote: post #38

zump wrote: post #26

Erm, why is he not frozen?

For some reason, in Europe, even less people seriously consider cryonics as an option, despite the population being generally less religious. Some view it with cynicism. Others just laugh.

All cryonics do is a pseudo-scientific embalming process.

Personally, I find it much likelier that the current service providers screw up the process than that in the future we could not somehow bring people back to life.

The current actual scientific state of the art in cryopreservation deals with something far more simple than a human being http://www.nature.com/articles/srep18816

I'm all up for it once it gets some scientific credibility.

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#107

Post by wtbob » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:24 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #65

mlong169 wrote: post #39

I don't know this man, nor will it matter what I write here one way or another, but morally, I'm at odds with this person decision to humanly kill himself. I have no words of encouragement or wisdom, as Nihilism is itself the end of hope. God speed, and may the Lord have mercy on your soul. Which might be an oxymoron, since that conceptual framework was rejected in favor of the easy button, I suppose. Peace

Do you think it meet of a Christian man to speak so at a time like this, or indeed any other? This is cruelty. We are called to kindness. Do you think it's your place to judge what God will and won't forgive? This is arrogance. We are called to humility. Would you demand that someone else continue in unbearable agony to satisfy your own personal notion of the right way to act? This is hatred. We are called to love.

> Do you think it meet of a Christian man to speak so at a time like this, or indeed any other?

I do.

> This is cruelty.

Is it cruelty, or love? Is it kindness to say to someone, 'the world is better off without you in it'? Is it kindness to help someone destroy himself, and with himself every second he could have had?

> Do you think it's your place to judge what God will and won't forgive? This is arrogance. We are called to humility.

Do you think it's humble to arrogate for oneself the ending of one's life? Do you think that radical self-determination is not arrogance?

> Would you demand that someone else continue in unbearable agony to satisfy your own personal notion of the right way to act? This is hatred. We are called to love.

Do you think it is love to extinguish the greatest gift of all — life — in order to satisfy your personal theory of self-determination? Do you think it is hatred to urge someone to preserve the most important thing he has — himself?

I have no problem with it being legal for someone to commit suicide. My only problem is in applauding his error.

(also, as an aside, unbearable agony is quite pleasant with sufficient, albeit lethal, quantities of opiates)

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#108

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:26 PM UTC

jwildeboer wrote: post #33

I have known Pieter since around 2002. We didn't meet or talk that often, but usually we would have a fun few hours every FOSDEM. On one of those occasions we defined "our" religion, stallmanism.com Pieter transferred the site and domain to me a few days ago. In the past few months I have been almost obsessed with consuming everything he wrote and published. It is exactly my way of thinking. Of questioning reality an…

[deleted]

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#109

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:26 PM UTC

dmichulke wrote: post #34

If I were going to die, I'd feel very sad but not because of me nor because of my wife or friends. They are adults and they must deal with this. I'd feel that I let down my children and couldn't give them a happy and careless childhood without having to deal with the cruelty of reality. So, may his kids have the strength to deal with it without losing their light-heartedness.

[deleted]

Re: I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words.

#110

Post by Razengan » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 2:27 PM UTC

arkades wrote: post #51

fsloth wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all die at some point. While I too abhor cancer I find hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. The universe is out to get us - we've evolved into tough bastard but we've not defeated mortality.

> hard to fear it more than any other thing that can kill me - a stroke, a car accident, etc. Hm. I wonder your age. Young folk seem to think death impossibly foreign, and fear it / ignore it all equally. Older folk, that have had more first-hand experience with the decline of the flesh in themselves and those they grew up with, have more an appreciation for the difference between an abrupt death in a car accident, a…

Writing this as a reply to all the comments regarding death;

I think "death" is just another condition like disease or disability that will eventually be defeated through technology. Someday we will have medical immortality and maybe even mind-backups, to "restore" a person (or a very close approximation of them) in the case of accident/violence.

We should be looking at death as something surpassable and not necessarily grim or morbid.