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Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

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Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#71

Post by dom0 »

dperfect wrote: post #13

The problem really isn't a function of the number of tools and frameworks in existence, but rather in the distribution of popularity among them. Each ecosystem around a set of technologies essentially has its own "Herfindahl index"[1] of sorts. For example, the Ruby ecosystem's index might be fairly high, simply because Rails is so dominant (to the point where Ruby and Rails are often conflated by outsiders). On the…

> I suspect the best/healthiest ecosystem is probably somewhere in between that of Ruby and JavaScript. Rails may have ultimately hurt Ruby by its dominance, just as the current volatility in JavaScript tools seems to drive some people away (or at least add frustration).

I think this description matches the Python web ecosystem quite well. Historically there were the Z(ope)-ish projects, which still exist and are being used (and they work quite nice); Django obviously dominated for a long time, but in more recent years some healthy competition ensued (Flask and it's highly modular approach for example, but also Pyramid), which resulted in a lot of reworking and improvement for all frameworks. Django now vs. Django 2010 is a vast difference in developer and user friendliness. Some specialized frameworks popped up (Tornado comes to mind), but overall there isn't a heavy fragmentation of the ecosystem (bad) but no one dominator either (bad).

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#72

Post by collyw »

dom0 wrote: post #71
dperfect wrote: post #13

The problem really isn't a function of the number of tools and frameworks in existence, but rather in the distribution of popularity among them. Each ecosystem around a set of technologies essentially has its own "Herfindahl index"[1] of sorts. For example, the Ruby ecosystem's index might be fairly high, simply because Rails is so dominant (to the point where Ruby and Rails are often conflated by outsiders). On the…

> I suspect the best/healthiest ecosystem is probably somewhere in between that of Ruby and JavaScript. Rails may have ultimately hurt Ruby by its dominance, just as the current volatility in JavaScript tools seems to drive some people away (or at least add frustration). I think this description matches the Python web ecosystem quite well. Historically there were the Z(ope)-ish projects, which still exist and are bei…

Its nice that there is one (fairly) obvious choice to go for unless you have specific needs.

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#73

Post by raverbashing »

ffggvv wrote: post #39
electic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can spin it this way if you like. However, a big part of this framework and Tool epidemic is ego. The trick is to take a dominant framework or tool, find a deficiency, and then rewrite it again with that deficiency fixed. Why? Because if it takes off, your career takes of. What developers should really do is contribute and make the existing projects better. Everyone will thank you for it.

Nope they won't, because then your are just another contributor. There are thousand working on linux (the kernel). How many of them do you know?

Which is better (for your CV), be a contributor to Angular.js (example) or create your something.js that left-pads and right-pads at the same time?

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#74

Post by leppr »

amelius wrote: post #48
joelhooks wrote: post #40

I've been building UIs for 20 years, and the tools we have now are the best I've ever had the pleasure to work with. It's more fun now than ever. More please.

Except now we have to target 3 different mobile platforms, the web, and possibly 3 different native desktop environments. Where is the progress in that?

You develop for large and small screens, with either keyboard/mouse or touchscreen inputs. That's all.

The specifics are supposed to be automatically handled by preprocessing and deployment tools, or only cared for in the optimization/final polish phase.

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#75

Post by [deleted] »

electic wrote: post #27
dperfect wrote: post #13

The problem really isn't a function of the number of tools and frameworks in existence, but rather in the distribution of popularity among them. Each ecosystem around a set of technologies essentially has its own "Herfindahl index"[1] of sorts. For example, the Ruby ecosystem's index might be fairly high, simply because Rails is so dominant (to the point where Ruby and Rails are often conflated by outsiders). On the…

You can spin it this way if you like. However, a big part of this framework and Tool epidemic is ego. The trick is to take a dominant framework or tool, find a deficiency, and then rewrite it again with that deficiency fixed. Why? Because if it takes off, your career takes of. What developers should really do is contribute and make the existing projects better. Everyone will thank you for it.

[deleted]

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#76

Post by spdionis »

amelius wrote: post #48
joelhooks wrote: post #40

I've been building UIs for 20 years, and the tools we have now are the best I've ever had the pleasure to work with. It's more fun now than ever. More please.

Except now we have to target 3 different mobile platforms, the web, and possibly 3 different native desktop environments. Where is the progress in that?

That we actually can target all of them more or less easily?

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#77

Post by [deleted] »

DSteinmann wrote: post #57
enraged_camel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Node is an application runtime environment, not a framework. There are frameworks written on top of Node, such as ExpressJS. http://www.javaworld.com/article/2079190/scripting-jvm-langu...

I know that. I wouldn't touch node with a 10 foot pole (after past experiences) and since the parent comment's framework is integrated with Node it's a non-starter.

[deleted]

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#78

Post by [deleted] »

DSteinmann wrote: post #25
niftylettuce wrote: post #20

I'm building a better JS framework https://github.com/crocodilejs/crocodile-node-mvc-framework - release v1.0.0 comes out soon, join in Slack at http://slack.crocodilejs.com/

> CrocodileJS is a Node MVC framework that lets you chew apart JavaScript Four words in and CrocodileJS is already lumped onto the 4/5ths heap of unusable frameworks (Node is an immediate non-starter in the same vein as MongoDB). Just to give you some perspective and perhaps help you see the irony.

[deleted]

Re: Too Many Tools and Frameworks (2015)

#79

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #78
DSteinmann wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CrocodileJS is a Node MVC framework that lets you chew apart JavaScript Four words in and CrocodileJS is already lumped onto the 4/5ths heap of unusable frameworks (Node is an immediate non-starter in the same vein as MongoDB). Just to give you some perspective and perhaps help you see the irony.

[deleted]

[deleted]
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