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Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

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Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#61

Post by ido »

Tichy wrote: post #29
lotharbot wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, "Corporations don't pay enough for me to build a safety cushion of money." What sort of spending habits must one have for that statement to be true? Sounds like the parent commenter is making excuses.

Suppose I need about 2000€ per month - my rent is 500€ and my health insurance is 700€ (unfortunately). Also there might be family to support. So to survive for a year, I would need 24K of savings. It takes several years to build that up with a normal salary. To pay for a house or flat, most people work 30 years where I live. And that is with 50K they pay in cash in the beginning - which I don't have, as I don't have…

Where the hell in the EU do you live that medical insurance cost 700 Euros a month??

I haven't payed medical insurance since starting to work (as the employers pay them here), but when I did the cost (for plain vanilla public medical insurance, which in Austria covers pretty much everything in my experience) was a bit over 20 Euros a month.

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#63

Post by ido »

yalurker wrote: post #50
Tichy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I need about 2000€ per month - my rent is 500€ and my health insurance is 700€ (unfortunately). Also there might be family to support. So to survive for a year, I would need 24K of savings. It takes several years to build that up with a normal salary. To pay for a house or flat, most people work 30 years where I live. And that is with 50K they pay in cash in the beginning - which I don't have, as I don't have…

Mostly, it sounds like you've just had bad experiences in the past, or you live in a place that makes life harder. I live in the US, make an average salary for a software engineer, and live an incredibly comfortable life. I'm not going to retire at 30 or own a private yacht, but life isn't the dickensian struggle you present.

Sounds like it to me too.

I never had to think too much about expenses as a (single, childless) programmer here in Vienna (which is not known for very good developer salaries).

Looking at other programmers here it seems my experience is not out of the ordinary.

Sounds like a very exceptional situation.

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#64

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

jrockway wrote: post #55
enjo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family to support, and as I pass 30 years old..trust me.. money motivates me.

Really? Would you take a $10,000 pay raise to clean the inside of sewage holding tanks?

Honestly? I would at least consider it; I'm a pretty well paid senior developer in a lower cost of living area relative to the coasts (upper Midwest).

Why? As I get older I am less and less capable of sitting in front of a computer screen all day: I just get antsy and want to go outside. I'm not afraid of hard physical work: I live on a small farm and there are plenty of chores to do every day. If I could be paid my current salary to do something where I didn't have to sit under fluorescent lights all day I would really think seriously about it.

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#65

Post by tjpick »

andreyf wrote: post #37
einarvollset wrote: post #33

In my recent ploy to get downvoted, I'll sum up my view of this: Fuck you, pay me.

In my recent ploy to get you upvoted, I'll point out that some of the most brilliant programmers I know break the generalization in the article and follow this philosophy. They work as consultants making 5x the salary of their full-time counterparts, with precisely your mentality: I don't care if you respect me or honor me with social motivation or whatever. This is a business transaction, and I'll crank out amazing…

Maybe for them the task has gone from being cognitive to being mechanical.

Either by practise, or by some self-hypnosis-like trick.

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#66

Post by _delirium »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #24
warfangle wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expound upon why government mismanagement of the property market has caused NYC's absurd median rent? Or, at the very least, point me towards an interesting/insightful article on the subject? Thanks!

The problem isn't anything that the local government did, but what it didn't do. There are a lot of steps that could have been taken to lower the rent and property prices. For example, one measure is disallowing anyone to own property in New York that they don't live in at least 6 months plus 1 day. (The same is true of rent control, since a lot of RC people now live out of the city but keep the apartment because it'…

The last seems like it'd have a lot of ways to backfire, though. Will there be a grace period in bad economies, so people who lose their jobs, or involuntarily get moved to part-time work, don't also have to move out? What about people bootstrapping startups by living off savings from a previous job?

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#67

Post by Tichy »

ido wrote: post #61
Tichy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I need about 2000€ per month - my rent is 500€ and my health insurance is 700€ (unfortunately). Also there might be family to support. So to survive for a year, I would need 24K of savings. It takes several years to build that up with a normal salary. To pay for a house or flat, most people work 30 years where I live. And that is with 50K they pay in cash in the beginning - which I don't have, as I don't have…

Where the hell in the EU do you live that medical insurance cost 700 Euros a month?? I haven't payed medical insurance since starting to work (as the employers pay them here), but when I did the cost (for plain vanilla public medical insurance, which in Austria covers pretty much everything in my experience) was a bit over 20 Euros a month.

Germany. Insurance is a percentage of your income, up to a maximum (something around 700 to 800EUR). That's if you are on "public insurance". At the moment I can't switch to private insurance, also not sure if it would be a good idea in the long run.

I suspect a lot of Germans are not consciously aware of how much health insurance costs, because the employer pays half of it. So they would think they only pay 300€ for health insurance, when in reality they pay 600€.

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#68

Post by Tichy »

ido wrote: post #63
yalurker wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly, it sounds like you've just had bad experiences in the past, or you live in a place that makes life harder. I live in the US, make an average salary for a software engineer, and live an incredibly comfortable life. I'm not going to retire at 30 or own a private yacht, but life isn't the dickensian struggle you present.

Sounds like it to me too. I never had to think too much about expenses as a (single, childless) programmer here in Vienna (which is not known for very good developer salaries). Looking at other programmers here it seems my experience is not out of the ordinary. Sounds like a very exceptional situation.

I did not have to think much about expenses either. But did you plan to buy a house, or start a company? That is, have you tried to get significant savings on the side?

Also, how old are you? I think when young, one doesn't really have a feeling for how much money one might need in the long run. Alone, I don't need more than maybe a 30m^2 flat. I don't crave any luxuries (except a fast computer+internet). Once family enters the picture, things might change dramatically. Suddenly you need a 4+ bedroom flat, a car, finance your kids education etc. Also, the older you get, the more you realize that you need savings for old age, good health insurance, and you might not be able to always work as hard as you used to.

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#69

Post by Tichy »

yalurker wrote: post #50
Tichy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I need about 2000€ per month - my rent is 500€ and my health insurance is 700€ (unfortunately). Also there might be family to support. So to survive for a year, I would need 24K of savings. It takes several years to build that up with a normal salary. To pay for a house or flat, most people work 30 years where I live. And that is with 50K they pay in cash in the beginning - which I don't have, as I don't have…

Mostly, it sounds like you've just had bad experiences in the past, or you live in a place that makes life harder. I live in the US, make an average salary for a software engineer, and live an incredibly comfortable life. I'm not going to retire at 30 or own a private yacht, but life isn't the dickensian struggle you present.

Sounds as if you are not 30 yet. Maybe your outlook will change when you get older. I don't know the conditions in the US, though. I suppose houses are cheap for one thing (by now).

Re: Top Motivators For Developers (Hint: not money)

#70

Post by pw0ncakes »

_delirium wrote: post #66
pw0ncakes wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't anything that the local government did, but what it didn't do. There are a lot of steps that could have been taken to lower the rent and property prices. For example, one measure is disallowing anyone to own property in New York that they don't live in at least 6 months plus 1 day. (The same is true of rent control, since a lot of RC people now live out of the city but keep the apartment because it'…

The last seems like it'd have a lot of ways to backfire, though. Will there be a grace period in bad economies, so people who lose their jobs, or involuntarily get moved to part-time work, don't also have to move out? What about people bootstrapping startups by living off savings from a previous job?

Yes, of course. People who recently lost jobs or were working for bootstrapped startups would get an exemption.
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