Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

cabada.mx

141–150 of 192 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#141

Dude, your english is not great. I am Mexican myself and believe it or not, that's a big show stopper. I applied to 37Signals back in 2008 or 2009 and my english was so bad that they won't even bother to reply (And they wrote a blog post shortly that they wouldn't even respond to poor communicators :P) That wouldn't explain why the holagus guys wouldn't hire you, tho ;) This is my advice: 1. Forget about going to a j…

Learning to better communicate in written English, is huge. Event though I'm a native English speaker, I'd say written English has been the main thing holding back my career. Improving your business communication skills goes a long way. I'm still terrible, but every improvement I've made has lead to positive outcomes in performance reviews. Your coding skills become far more valuable if you have other skills to compliments them. If you can code and interact with clients you'll be a more attractive hire.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 26 and I gotta say I agree. I only just got my first real programming job. It took me knowing the right person, and they spoke to someone who got me hired before I knew it. So take your dads job, meet new people, network. People are fascinated by technology, and software development touches many many fields from law enforcement (forensics), to medical, all the way to farming, and many more. Your dad could even u…

You shouldn't need to network to get a job programming or to advance your career. It doesn't hurt, but it's unnecessary. That's at least half of the allure of this line of work.

> You shouldn't need to network to get a job programming or to advance your career.

I think some of you forget that the rest of the world isn't New York/Austin/Bay Area. For most of us, just because we're competent programmers and have a pulse doesn't mean we'll get snatched up off the street. Programming is a very competitive job situation in many mid-sized cities across the USA and Europe, and networking is unfortunately quite necessary to both get a job and to advance your career. By far, the most successful programmers I know around here and those who network the best (I'm unfortunately not very interested in networking, and have suffered accordingly).

Also, once you hit around 40, lots of people who once would have loved to have you don't seem to want you anymore.

Programming was a great career when I was 20 and self-taught. Twenty years later, it's not looking so hot, even though I've very much kept up with the latest stacks and languages. Still, I love writing code, so what am I going to do, go into management?

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't need to network to get a job programming or to advance your career. It doesn't hurt, but it's unnecessary. That's at least half of the allure of this line of work.

> You shouldn't need to network to get a job programming or to advance your career. I think some of you forget that the rest of the world isn't New York/Austin/Bay Area. For most of us, just because we're competent programmers and have a pulse doesn't mean we'll get snatched up off the street. Programming is a very competitive job situation in many mid-sized cities across the USA and Europe, and networking is unfortu…

Right, but OP is in the Bay Area. But to your point, if you are willing to relocate (which, if you're trying to start a career at 26, you should be..) then geography doesn't matter that much. An email address, a phone line and recognizable skills will get you a ticket to SF/Seattle/Boston for an on-site interview in a heartbeat.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#144
post #27

I'm not sure why people consistently get hung up on getting accepted at one of the "Big Five" "I tried to look for a job out of my city, but no luck, I don’t know what’s the deal with coding interviews, but I bet they don’t work good. I’ve been rejected from" ... Google Facebook Magic Uber Holagus (Mexican startup) I'm not sure what draws everyone to places like this when there are ~many~ other companies. Also does t…

It would appear the draw is the massive (2x?) compensation difference, and getting to do good work rather than "shit fast, shit often" work.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You shouldn't need to network to get a job programming or to advance your career. I think some of you forget that the rest of the world isn't New York/Austin/Bay Area. For most of us, just because we're competent programmers and have a pulse doesn't mean we'll get snatched up off the street. Programming is a very competitive job situation in many mid-sized cities across the USA and Europe, and networking is unfortu…

Right, but OP is in the Bay Area. But to your point, if you are willing to relocate (which, if you're trying to start a career at 26, you should be..) then geography doesn't matter that much. An email address, a phone line and recognizable skills will get you a ticket to SF/Seattle/Boston for an on-site interview in a heartbeat.

I thought OP was in Mexico?

Anyway, many of us have family situations that don't allow us to easily uproot and move across the country, as much as we might like to do so sometimes.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#146
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Motivation is the wrong thing to go after. Discipline is the key. Please provide either some sources or argumentation for such a significant claim.

There's lots of positive data eschewing the benefits of pursuing discipline as the master skill, because once you learn that you can learn to be disciplined at any skill you need, you can more effectively learn and do anything that needs to be done and get to the task of being successful towards your goals. Discipline to do what needs to be done will always beat constantly seeking motivation, because motivation impli…

Not a single one of your links supports your claim. Most (all?) are not even talking about motivation or discipline at all. One talks about self-control, which is a whole other topic and closely related to motivation.

Here's a link that would be relevant to what we're talking about: http://growthzer.com/substitute-for-motivation/

It could be argued with. But, at the end of the day, it's just a blog post.

Here's another blog post, with which I agree more: http://zenhabits.net/discipline/

Your statements cannot be read properly because you are using a term far outside its normal definition yet you have not defined it. Discipline is traditionally the execution of codes, norms, and orders, often involving an institution or a person who will inflict punishment or other, well, motivational tools to make you comply with those codes, norms, and orders. The blog I linked goes over this.

You are vastly oversimplifying what motivation is and constructing strawmen, it's a fairly complex subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation

> Motivation is a temporary mental bath that constantly needs renewing.

> Intrinsic motivation can be long-lasting and self-sustaining.

Interestingly enough, this sort of motivation is perceived as superior to the motivation you're suggesting (if you are using the word discipline), which is punishment based.

I can't help but think that this is simply a case of drastic misuse of terms. If there was something of substance to be said here, I'd expect to see a discussion about extrinsic/intrinsic motivation, how it plays into self-control, and related pathways.

Pop-culture uses of discipline, grit, and other nebulous terms should not be used as truth.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#147
Ok, I know how you feel. You are 26yo and you are definitely a good programmer. The problem: You're not 10yo anymore, so no one will congratulate you for building your bots and games.

You realized that. You are intelligent like many others in this industry. You've understood that you had potential and now you've got the feeling that you wasted it. Otherwise I can't explain that all your writing is directed towards your past.

I get that you feel sorry for yourself, but this won't help you, it'll lead to a miserable life.

The solution is simple: Start to live your own life. Pack your stuff and go. And when I say it, I mean it.

Stop building these bots if you don't earn money with them. You can start later again if you have companies that want to pay your for this. Start asking for advice for your landing pages, your own website, Hivee and talkbot look like they have interesting content, but it's very inaccessible (e.g. Talkbot: would be a great chance to show the features instead of opening the mail client).

If you have experience doing web development, native app development, AR, NLP, ML and even Hardware/IoT, you are absolutely able to get a job that is paying you a rent and a lot more. Maybe your home city is not right to get a job there, maybe not even your home country. But you really don't want to waste your life feeling sorry for yourself.

So go out and seek opportunities. Use Github and show your projects. Talk to business owners, ask them if you can work for them and search for opportunities to implement software that help them and charge them for your support. Learn to do invoices, seek a mentor who can help you with your tax filing. -- you're not going to build your own life if you're not even able to learn how to get money.

Stop calling yourself a founder: say that you have some projects, but don't sound like a douche bag - having a business means getting revenue. Show people your projects and they will understand that your work can help them. Whining about missing support from people who don't know code is only the absence of creative ideas and valuable projects that even laymen can understand. Work a week for your father and you'll see how inefficient his processes are: improve them, you have the skills. -- When I was 12yo, I was crying once because nobody in my family understood my coding hobby. After I wrote some helpful tools and earned some money, they've realized that this computer stuff is good for me and supported me.

Regarding job interviews: The best way to get hired is to build trust and relationships. You don't have to do whiteboard interviews if you know the right people. I'm not suggesting that this works for Facebook or Google, but there are more than those 5 companies you've listed.

And if nothing works, make a nice CV, write some blog posts and case studies of your projects, create accounts at upwork, craigslist and similar pages and connect with other people through the internet.

So, back to your question: "How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?" You start to give a f#?k about other opinions and simply hustle, we're not entitled to anything. Stop blaming other circumstances and gain control of your life. You may want to be the highly gifted man who talks about his businesses while living at home or you start to do the real thing - your choice.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but OP is in the Bay Area. But to your point, if you are willing to relocate (which, if you're trying to start a career at 26, you should be..) then geography doesn't matter that much. An email address, a phone line and recognizable skills will get you a ticket to SF/Seattle/Boston for an on-site interview in a heartbeat.

I thought OP was in Mexico? Anyway, many of us have family situations that don't allow us to easily uproot and move across the country, as much as we might like to do so sometimes.

Yea, I don't know, the author's LinkedIn says Bay Area but education appears to be in Mexico.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#149

Since you're asking, I will tell you what I would do, and what you will think is blasphemy: I would take your dad's offer. I would start working with him. I'm sure you're a very good coder; don't get me wrong. But despite what you'll hear, there are a lot of them out there. If you think you're the best programmer around, it just means you haven't looked very hard. Remember, software is never an end but always a means…

> I would take your dad's offer. I would start working with him.

But, don't give up coding. You will succeed if you continue to practice.

Don't just write code for yourself or as an attempt to start a business. Instead, join a major free source project that you would use and find interesting by fix bugs and then submitting the fixes. Continue to do this and if you are good enough and like to work on the project enough, you may become a core part of the team. Eventually this will help you build connections for other work. Developing yourself is often more important than developing a product for a business.

Give that 5 years, then will have more experience to guide your business ideas.

This isn't the path for everyone. Some get lucky and work on the right product at the right time. But, if you've given it your best effort, try something else. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep motivated if nobody supports you?

#150
post #20
post #7

For me the most eye-opening lesson about the business world was the realization that you are not an entrepreneur just because you can build something. You become an entrepreneur when you build something that people are willing to pay for. You may be good at writing software, but are you writing software that solves a problem for anyone? If not, you're going to be hard-pressed to find external validation. You don't sa…

I've come to realize the same thing. Like the author, I've been programming since I was an early teen and that was pretty much all I did for years. I would love to break into the software market but realized that I only think like an engineer and not so much like a business man. I've been mainly interested in the design, implementation, and theory of software rather than thinking of what software that people would an…

The best way to solve this is to find a business partner who is also a good friend of you. The best freelance teams I know contain extroverts who connect with the clients (and sometimes develop) and god-like developers who do the heavy lifting. You shouldn't underestimate the effort to get a client and do proper project management and budgeting, it's easier with a good friend who knows his business stuff.
Post reply on HN