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The State of JavaScript – Survey results

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Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#241

Post by davidjnelson »

mikewhy wrote: post #166
badthingfactory wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else have you tried? All of the alternatives have left me compromising on the way I build my front ends. The docs for Webpack aren't great, and configuring it might be a bit painful, but if there's a better option I would love to know what it is so I can start using it. Things I want: * es2015 transpiling * jsx support * css/less/sass support * module loading * uglification for production builds * hot module rep…

parched-tasks-webapp has all but one of those things (hashed file names), and it's just built on browserify. And you don't have to do weird things to get your CSS out of your JS on the server.

Why not just use css modules with the extract text plugin to put everything in a single stylesheet to solve that problem? For Dev it supports hot reload, and other environments get an extracted stylesheet that works with sever rendering and avoids fouc's. Plus you can autoprefix the output, and because of the css modules design you get encapsulated component css for free. The annoyance is working with a css framework or its js library, i.e.: bootstrap or material as each one seems to have a different approach to css dependencies. But I think those frameworks are becoming less relevant or can have their limitations worked around usually depending on which one you choose.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#242

Post by alasdair_ »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #195
OhSoHumble wrote: post #152

It's really unfortunate that so many people aren't interested in learning Ember. I just started an internal IT tool in Rails and Ember and I'm really enjoying the simplicity of it. I want something that is easy to understand, easy to setup, and won't change for a while. I became more interested in Ember when I read something online about how they are focusing on stability in the long term instead of a bunch of featur…

I think Ember is great, and agree more people should use it, but it is NOT simple. It is easy, but it is extremely complicated. Ember follows in the Rails tradition of "convention over configuration". This means common activities can be done with a simple command, creating a file, or adding a flag in the right place. This comes at a price: everything that happens in your Ember app is deeply tangled in Ember internals…

>"everything that happens in your Ember app is deeply tangled in Ember internals which are very complex."

and

>"it's fundamentally at odds with what I would consider the Node Ethos, which is small packages that do one thing cleanly."

You could substitute "Ember" with "Microsoft Windows" and "Node" with "UNIX" and be just as correct.

I wonder how frequently this design/philosophy decision comes up.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#243

Post by k__ »

djmashko2 wrote: post #236
k__ wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you guys know something loke Apollo but on top of RxJS? I'm not a big fan of Redux anymore since I discovered observable streams.

Apollo returns the data in observable form. You never have to deal with Redux directly if you don't want to. Check out the Angular docs for more details.

It's also written in TypeScript, nice!

A few days ago I was thinking about using GraphQL in future projects and didn't even find out about Apollo.

So it combines data retrieval via GraphQL with client side state management via Redux?

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#244

Post by davidjnelson »

tomatsu wrote: post #71
FrancoDiaz wrote: post #16

ES6, CoffeeScript, and TypeScript all have near-perfect awareness, which surprised me since TypeScript isn’t quite as popular as the other two yet. I take issue with that statement. Just anecdotal, but I think these days Typescript is much more "popular" than CoffeeScript

Anecdotally, CS appears to have lost quite a bit of popularity while TS gained some. RedMonk seems to confirm these trends. TS grows while CS stagnates: Q1 2016: http://sogrady-media.redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2016/02/lang-... Q3 2016: http://sogrady-media.redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2016/07/lang....

Ts seems awesome but it looked like kind of a pain with separate ts and js files, mandatory type definitions not being present for lots of dependencies, and back when I looked at it seeming pretty all or nothing. I like flow. The people that built ts are brilliant too though. Curious if anyone has a good comparison between flow and ts. I've heard ts has improved a lot lately.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#245

Post by davidjnelson »

fail2fail2ban wrote: post #130
SeanDav wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "... the reason why there's so much churn is because smart, inventive people are constantly finding better ways to do things." It also follows that at some point, these smart, inventive people will come up with fairly stable frameworks that are sufficiently flexible and powerful to accommodate most of the problem space out there. It is reasonable to ask if such a point has been reached...

JavaScript has been around since the 90's; a quick scan of this page reveals around 2 dozen JavaScript technologies. The only solution is to remove JavaScript from all browsers and replace it with Java.

Try GWT ;-)

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#246

Post by davidjnelson »

z3t4 wrote: post #122
ng12 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem was the hard-to-maintain lazy way was usually the most obvious. There was so much momentum behind the quick-and-dirty imperative DOM approach that it was hard to do anything else. For example, you could totally use Backbone to construct modular, refactorable views -- but in practice everything would devolve into DOM-munging event-driven spaghetti.

I think one reason why React is so popular is that it forced you into an object oriented approach whereas before many developers used innerHTML everywhere. It is possible to write object oriented, structured "class" based vanilla JavaScript with imperative DOM manipulations though, witch is more performant then popular frameworks.

Right, it's interesting react had a goal of eliminating xss vulnerabilities so common with the innerhtml approach.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#247

Post by davidjnelson »

ng12 wrote: post #100
mountaineer22 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your current recommended or dream stack?

Currently my go-to is: React, Redux, Typescript, CSS Modules (optionally with Less) built/managed via npm and Webpack. The real beauty is that everything is well-encapsulated. If I decide one component absolutely needs to use jQuery for some reason there's nothing stopping me as long as the top-level API is still React.

Nice! Why ts over flow?

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#248

Post by sotojuan »

errozero wrote: post #202
OhSoHumble wrote: post #152

It's really unfortunate that so many people aren't interested in learning Ember. I just started an internal IT tool in Rails and Ember and I'm really enjoying the simplicity of it. I want something that is easy to understand, easy to setup, and won't change for a while. I became more interested in Ember when I read something online about how they are focusing on stability in the long term instead of a bunch of featur…

I worked on an Ember project once, the first JS framework I ever used. It really frustrated me that I had it had to use Babel to convert the ES6 into ES5. For some reason, on my laptop, that took about 10 seconds, so every time I wanted to check if some new code worked as expected, there was this long delay. There were a lot of other issues I had with it too. I love working with straight Javascript (ES5), jQuery and…

That's strange. Both React and Ember projects compile ES6 -> ES5 in very little time on my machine.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#249

Post by sotojuan »

OhSoHumble wrote: post #239
tiglionabbit wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Why should I use Ember instead of React or Polymer? Does it have a better story for cache management or something?

Why the dismissive "huh?" Was there anything I said that was incoherent or not easily understood? "Does it have a better story for cache management or something?" I think this question shows a misunderstanding of what I'm trying to convey. I can't really offer a set of deep technical answers when contrasting the various JavaScript frameworks. Most of my use cases for front end development comes down to some pretty si…

What did you use to learn Ember? I'm also in the "convention over config" camp and I love that the Ember team sticks to it but also introduces new tech like FastBoot whenever they can.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#250

Post by sotojuan »

joshowens wrote: post #215
OhSoHumble wrote: post #152

It's really unfortunate that so many people aren't interested in learning Ember. I just started an internal IT tool in Rails and Ember and I'm really enjoying the simplicity of it. I want something that is easy to understand, easy to setup, and won't change for a while. I became more interested in Ember when I read something online about how they are focusing on stability in the long term instead of a bunch of featur…

I suspect that we didn't get enough Ember responders, because I do think they have a reasonable sized community. 9k responses is likely not enough to draw a reasonable conclusion that it isn't popular. I wish we could have paired up npm downloads or some other stat besides some of this data...

Ember has a pretty large community—the framework has a few conferences every year that are filled up. Most Ember devs don't seem to participate in a lot of JS community things and are very quiet compared to say, the React community.
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