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A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

washingtonpost.com

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Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#71

Post by tajen »

chrisseaton wrote: post #56
criley2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At the same time, it seemed easier to be selfless as a teenager, probably for similar reasons for why it's easier to draft 18-year-olds than it is 28-year-olds. Given young persons willingness to sacrifice for the greater cause without realizing that life extends well past your 30s and 40s I totally agree, the biological basis of this is Pre-frontal Cortex development. "The [prefrontal cortex] isn't fully developed…

> I can't understand any other context for drafting 18 year olds other than taking advantage of their youth and incomplete development Physical fitness surely? Isn't 18 or 19 around the physical fitness peak? I'm guessing that people are on average are significantly stronger and more robust at 18 than they are at 28. I think the British Army has 26 as the limit for joining in the first place for officers at least. Al…

I'd say the peak strength must be 22-26, because 18-years-olds are really thin and lean (source: I love men ;)) – unless they've been practising musculation, but once again, if they practice musculation at 24, they'll be much bigger. But it takes well above 2 years to train a professional, so profesional recruitment takes them earlier. However, concerning draft followed by almost-immediate use on the battlefield, given this subjective data, it makes little sense to me, physically, to draft them so young.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#72

Post by M_Grey »

sqeaky wrote: post #64
sidlls wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, healthy people learn empathy, they aren't born being empathetic. They should learn it very early, and certainly should demonstrate some empathy by the time pre-K rolls around.

This back and forth sounds a great deal like "NO U" being shouted on 4chan. Are there any sources, papers or studies indicating whether it is learned, innate or both? Sources and empiricism are what we should be resorting to, not down-votes.

You're not going to find a lot of people jumping through that hoop, given that 5 seconds with Google is all that it takes. This isn't some controversial developmental theory, and this isn't a formal debate.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#73

Post by JamesBarney »

colechristensen wrote: post #62
pdq wrote: post #47

This is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way as unethical, but the best way to incentivize organ donation is if the donors get paid a market price for the organ. The donor is giving up a valuable piece of their body, taking time and large medical risks in surgery, and likely reduced life expectancy. If you walk through the current process, everyone in the donation gets paid -- doctors, nurses, hospital, pharma…

You're missing a very big point 5. The quality of organs goes down. It's been extensively studied for paying for blood donations, and the consensus is widely to discourage the practice. https://www.statnews.com/2016/01/22/paid-plasma-not-blood/ http://www.radiolab.org/story/308403-blood/

The biggest difference between blood and organs is scale. Organs are sold for largest sums of money which means that there is much more money and time available to do full medical work ups and tests to verify the quality of the organs.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#74

Post by mcjon77 »

Lordarminius wrote: post #59
pdq wrote: post #47

This is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way as unethical, but the best way to incentivize organ donation is if the donors get paid a market price for the organ. The donor is giving up a valuable piece of their body, taking time and large medical risks in surgery, and likely reduced life expectancy. If you walk through the current process, everyone in the donation gets paid -- doctors, nurses, hospital, pharma…

While there is a short fall of viable organs for donation, the issue the author raises here is one of long term risk . This is what gets brushed aside when the organ donation process is activated. Only now do we have results from long term study of donors and some of them as pointed out by the author are not good at all. This problem is not confined to kidney donations for instance, is a growing body of evidence that…

Wow! I had no idea that there were any links to long term problems with lasix. I have been considering the procedure for over 15 years, but never pulled the trigger. If there are long term risks, I think that I will just stick to glasses.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#75

Post by WalterBright »

Lordarminius wrote: post #59
pdq wrote: post #47

This is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way as unethical, but the best way to incentivize organ donation is if the donors get paid a market price for the organ. The donor is giving up a valuable piece of their body, taking time and large medical risks in surgery, and likely reduced life expectancy. If you walk through the current process, everyone in the donation gets paid -- doctors, nurses, hospital, pharma…

While there is a short fall of viable organs for donation, the issue the author raises here is one of long term risk . This is what gets brushed aside when the organ donation process is activated. Only now do we have results from long term study of donors and some of them as pointed out by the author are not good at all. This problem is not confined to kidney donations for instance, is a growing body of evidence that…

> illogically

The ethical problem there is how hard the hospital works to save a patient as opposed to letting them die so they can harvest the organs.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#76

Post by [deleted] »

mcjon77 wrote: post #74
Lordarminius wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there is a short fall of viable organs for donation, the issue the author raises here is one of long term risk . This is what gets brushed aside when the organ donation process is activated. Only now do we have results from long term study of donors and some of them as pointed out by the author are not good at all. This problem is not confined to kidney donations for instance, is a growing body of evidence that…

Wow! I had no idea that there were any links to long term problems with lasix. I have been considering the procedure for over 15 years, but never pulled the trigger. If there are long term risks, I think that I will just stick to glasses.

[deleted]

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#77

Post by JamesBarney »

timecube wrote: post #48
pdq wrote: post #47

This is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way as unethical, but the best way to incentivize organ donation is if the donors get paid a market price for the organ. The donor is giving up a valuable piece of their body, taking time and large medical risks in surgery, and likely reduced life expectancy. If you walk through the current process, everyone in the donation gets paid -- doctors, nurses, hospital, pharma…

A big issue with allowing organ markets is that impoverished people can practically be forced to sell their organs.

Why would they be forced to sell their organs?

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#78

Post by Lordarminius »

WalterBright wrote: post #75
Lordarminius wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there is a short fall of viable organs for donation, the issue the author raises here is one of long term risk . This is what gets brushed aside when the organ donation process is activated. Only now do we have results from long term study of donors and some of them as pointed out by the author are not good at all. This problem is not confined to kidney donations for instance, is a growing body of evidence that…

> illogically The ethical problem there is how hard the hospital works to save a patient as opposed to letting them die so they can harvest the organs.

Well there's that of course.

But a huge problem also is that many relatives will baulk at the idea of their loved ones being harvested and also some religions have injunctions against this

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#79

Post by pkaye »

pdq wrote: post #47

This is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way as unethical, but the best way to incentivize organ donation is if the donors get paid a market price for the organ. The donor is giving up a valuable piece of their body, taking time and large medical risks in surgery, and likely reduced life expectancy. If you walk through the current process, everyone in the donation gets paid -- doctors, nurses, hospital, pharma…

I wish I was at home so I could type out a full reply. I have lots of thoughts on this as I found out my kidneys were failing a short time ago. At least for kidneys I think we need to attack the problem well before it reaches transplant stage. Better proactive screening would help a lot. Some simple medicines would help a bit it given earlier. There is some research on alternatives to transplants. UCSF has plans for an artificial kidney but they are still looking for more funding. There is also some early work to use stem cells to heal kidneys. This stuff needs more research. With a little bit of assistance many could stretch their weakened kidneys through their lifetime. Transplants are not a cure. One has to live with a life of anti rejection drugs with their risks.

Re: A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it

#80

Post by [deleted] »

criley2 wrote: post #16
danso wrote: post #11

I admire the author's selflessness. At the same time, it seemed easier to be selfless as a teenager, probably for similar reasons for why it's easier to draft 18-year-olds than it is 28-year-olds. Given young persons willingness to sacrifice for the greater cause without realizing that life extends well past your 30s and 40s, I wonder if more shouldn't be done to let young donors think of the risks, so that their naï…

>At the same time, it seemed easier to be selfless as a teenager, probably for similar reasons for why it's easier to draft 18-year-olds than it is 28-year-olds. Given young persons willingness to sacrifice for the greater cause without realizing that life extends well past your 30s and 40s I totally agree, the biological basis of this is Pre-frontal Cortex development. "The [prefrontal cortex] isn't fully developed…

[deleted]
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