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How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

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Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#41

Post by at-fates-hands »

FrancoDiaz wrote: post #24
tibbon wrote: post #11

This is pretty much why I don't do front-end. I'm fully capable of it, but I just don't like keeping up with this flavor-of-the-week. It just doesn't feel like programming to me, or at least not the programming I enjoy. Strangely, I see so many new developers rushing toward the front-end, which seems much more complicated in many ways than just building solid web API services, analyzing data, etc.

The "flavor of the week" is mostly a meme. You would be fine just learning ES6, a front-end technology like Angular or React, and a bundler like Webpack. Learning Webpack is painful, but there are other choices. The front-end is harder IMHO, but as another poster mentioned, the opportunities are tremendous.

>> You would be fine just learning ES6, a front-end technology like Angular or React, and a bundler like Webpack

In nearly every circle of developers I know, they insist you learn plain, vanilla JS first. Jumping in Angular without knowing what a JS object is, understanding how closures work, understanding callbacks, or understanding how JS's "this" works in detail. All things someone should be fluent with before they go jumping into Angular and React.

Also knowing there's a HUGE difference between Angular (which is a full MVC framework) vs. React (which is just the View part of an MVC framework) is a small, but important detail for someone just starting out.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#42

Post by tempodox »

It's bad enough the facts on the ground make it a virtual impossibility to circumvent JS altogether. The best we can do is always wearing gloves when handling it and to never write it manually.

JS, for the oversimplified thing it is, is just systematically overextended with the loads it has to carry now. No framework on earth will make that go away. And neither will ES6.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#43

Post by jordache »

choicewords wrote: post #38
jordache wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a developer role, and in the context of web applications(CRUD-ish) what do you think is the ceiling potential (in terms of earnings) Comparing JS/frontend positions vs backend development?

I don't do that type of analytics, but what I can see is that's it's quite hard to hire a good FE guy. Backend can be hard as well when looking for specialized stuff like Elixir, OCaml, Scala, Rust, etc. On the other hand, pure Ruby - Python - Java - C++ that's fairly common and not as likely to fetch high salary, since you'd be competing with a larger talent pool.

skillset like Java C++ .NET can also be more easily acquired from off-shore contractors.

I've found for FE work, esp for someone with good sense for the visuals, typical off-shore contractors in Asia do not provide the adequate skillset

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#45

Post by thatswrong0 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #30
dhruvkar wrote: post #21

I couldn't get through the entire thing. Even knowing that it's a fun/sarcastic piece of writing, the portrayed pain is all too real, as someone just starting to dive into the front-end. In all honesty, can I still use jQuery for new projects without issues in 2016? Is there a real reason not to?

Yes, you can. No, there's no real reason not to. But honestly, I'd go with React if you can. The reason is, if the app starts taking off, and you end up with a team maintaining your app, you're much less likely to end up with an unmaintainable mess in two years than if you use just jQuery. All applications, especially websites want frameworks. The framework is essentially a way to organize the massive amount of compl…

I agree - I think React is simple enough that there's no reason not to besides the overhead of JSX preprocessing (which I suppose isn't required but I would definitely recommend). It really is more of a library than a framework, which is great for starting out because there are fewer concepts to understand. Then when you start adding more people and your application gets more complicated and you need to manage your data flow in a more consistent way, you can add something like Redux after the fact incrementally. As long as you don't let components become too large, refactoring isn't too difficult.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#46

Post by dhruvkar »

vinceguidry wrote: post #30
dhruvkar wrote: post #21

I couldn't get through the entire thing. Even knowing that it's a fun/sarcastic piece of writing, the portrayed pain is all too real, as someone just starting to dive into the front-end. In all honesty, can I still use jQuery for new projects without issues in 2016? Is there a real reason not to?

Yes, you can. No, there's no real reason not to. But honestly, I'd go with React if you can. The reason is, if the app starts taking off, and you end up with a team maintaining your app, you're much less likely to end up with an unmaintainable mess in two years than if you use just jQuery. All applications, especially websites want frameworks. The framework is essentially a way to organize the massive amount of compl…

Good point.

Having heard the same from other - "jQuery is OK, use React for new projects" - I'll focus on that then.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#47

Post by dhruvkar »

natmaster wrote: post #32
dhruvkar wrote: post #21

I couldn't get through the entire thing. Even knowing that it's a fun/sarcastic piece of writing, the portrayed pain is all too real, as someone just starting to dive into the front-end. In all honesty, can I still use jQuery for new projects without issues in 2016? Is there a real reason not to?

React is really very simple. It only takes a short amount of time to learn it, and then when you do you won't get headaches all the time trying to keep track of state. You don't need to know all the toolchains and crap if you just use create-react-app.

Good to know. Just trying to find a thread (in front-end dev) to latch on to was challenging.

So I threw out everything, and just started from HTML on Gitlab Pages. I've added on CSS, and just started adding in little JS functions. I can now (sort of) appreciate frameworks. React seems to be a popular choice.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#48

Post by mgrennan »

This is what happens when management gives up and turns IT to developers. And I believe that happened when accountants took over because of Sarbanes Oxley. The accountants had no idea what they where getting into. Then the Tech Bubble happened and $$$ filled their eyes. Developers became GODs and now... This happened.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#50

Post by FrancoDiaz »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #41
FrancoDiaz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "flavor of the week" is mostly a meme. You would be fine just learning ES6, a front-end technology like Angular or React, and a bundler like Webpack. Learning Webpack is painful, but there are other choices. The front-end is harder IMHO, but as another poster mentioned, the opportunities are tremendous.

>> You would be fine just learning ES6, a front-end technology like Angular or React, and a bundler like Webpack In nearly every circle of developers I know, they insist you learn plain, vanilla JS first. Jumping in Angular without knowing what a JS object is, understanding how closures work, understanding callbacks, or understanding how JS's "this" works in detail. All things someone should be fluent with before the…

I was assuming that JavaScript would already be known to a certain degree.

I would actually recommend React over Angular for a beginner, because (assuming Angular 2 here) they're going to have to learn Typescript too. That's a big undertaking.

A beginner could also use plain old ES5 with a JSX transpiler right in web page with React.

VueJs might be a better choice than both of those, but much more limited job opportunities.

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