The State of JavaScript – Survey results • Hacker News Board

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#131

Post by Illniyar » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:47 PM UTC

GnarlyWhale wrote: post #45

Roboprog wrote: post #14

Some interesting things on the "Front End Frameworks" page: * 53% of the respondents used React, and would do so again. * 47% use "No framework", and would do so again. (hmm. that doesn't leave much room, unless you can use more than one tool depending on the situation) * 43% had "no interest" in Angular 2. One other thing to consider, of the "had used X, would/would-not use again" responses: there is of course a lot…

For the record, you don't need to use Typescript for Angular 2, you can just use regular JS (or Dart for that matter). The documentation is definitely biased toward Typescript at the moment, but I anticipate the situation improving as the framework matures.

That's technically true, but realistically false.

Just like people used to say that you don't need to use JSX to write React.

What's the point of using a heavy duty, opinionated framework without embracing it completely? that's just bound to get you into a whole lot of hurt.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#132

Post by ng12 » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:49 PM UTC

fail2fail2ban wrote: post #127

ng12 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this same, tired old meme in every thread about web technologies. It's funny to me that certain people are so disdainful of the churn in web development on a forum dedicated to "hackers". Web application development is hard, and the reason why there's so much churn is because smart, inventive people are constantly finding better ways to do things. Things aren't just resetting from scratch every 18 months. The w…

> Web application development is hard Replace JavaScript with Java in all browsers and make it much easier, dependable, predictable and reliable.

Well yeah, that'd be great. But the unfortunate reality is Javascript is the lingua franca of the web and we have to make due until there's a reasonable alternative.

Furthmore, it's not even JS that's really the problem. It's the entire JS/DOM/CSS stack.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#133

Post by rajington » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

ahunt09 wrote: post #124

"the thing that stands out right away is how the React row just lights up compared to the other front-end frameworks. In other words, React users are more likely than average to have experimented with multiple other technologies." I believe the data wrongly indicates this because React, Redux and Webpack are used together to achieve things that both Angular 2 and Ember solve similarly internally.

true, but i think even a lot of the other non-coupled technologies have higher numbers, but it's hard to say if that's higher percentages

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#134

Post by Illniyar » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

vlunkr wrote: post #64

For the life of me I can't understand why webpack has become the de facto build tool. It's so much more complex than anything else I've tried. I understand it's supposed to be faster, but still, I wouldn't bother with it until your build times actually start to become a nuisance.

Webpack replaces Browserify.

Browserify, while groundsbreaking, turned out not to be so good and much harder to extend.

Since webpack is not straightforward to use with other build tools, and since it can do most build actions easily enough, people use it for whatever they can get away with, and that usually means most of what you'll use grunt or gulp for.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#135

Post by bberrry » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:51 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #56

It's nice to see some love for Apollo here. It's leagues better than Relay and has definitely been the biggest boon to my development stack in a while. That being said, the article should make it clearer that Apollo is perfectly usable just as a frontend client—you don't have to adopt the backend at all. The Meteor team really deserves commendations for learning from some of the mistakes in building Meteor. Apollo sp…

You wouldn't happen to have a seed project with that stack by any chance? I would be very interested in trying it out.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#136

Post by rajington » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:51 PM UTC

pauljaworski wrote: post #89

>Overall, developers are not happy about JavaScript testing. This is because of the low percentage of devs in the survey who have used Jest. I can't begin to describe the joy of finally finding a JS test utility that just works and doesn't require a giant configuration file. If you aren't using Jest, make the switch now! It's likely a lot of your existing tests will work with Jest.

I love Jest, but thought the 59% satisfaction with Jest was unfortunate... probably super-early adopters?

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#137

Post by Illniyar » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:53 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #10

According to the survey, 213 people that took it have never head of plain javascript.

I thought they were being sarcastic.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#138

Post by clivestaples » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:56 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #11

epmatsw wrote: post #3

Super interesting. Lots of data there. Two things that stood out from a quick once-over: Vue is doing better than I expected. PostCSS is less adopted than I expected.

I just tried Vue 2.0 for the first time last week and I really really liked it.

I had a similar experience with Vue about six months ago. I read the documentation and then gave myself an hour with it. By the end of the same day, I had re-factored a very complex dashboard and enjoyed every minute of it.

My biggest complaint is that I love React/MobX and Vue which makes choosing one over the other really painful. What a great problem to have!

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#139

Post by timbuckley » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

Illniyar wrote: post #125

labrador wrote: post #70

I would respect the JavaScript so much more if there wasn't so much faddishness - somehow JS devs have decided switch statements are bad, indenting with 2 spaces is the only way to go, semi-colons should be banished and "boilerplate" code should be hidden in libraries the magically wipe it away so your code looks "clean," if barely understandable without reading through a bunch of libs. Edit: forgot to add that these…

> somehow JS devs have decided switch statements are bad huh. You obviously haven't played with Redux yet, it's basically switch statements all they way. The JS community is the biggest programming community in the world, there is no way you can lump anything on the community as a whole.

Indeed, I've never seen anyone use anything but switch statements in Redux reducer functions.

Re: The State of JavaScript – Survey results

#140

Post by nkassis » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

Noticed that under build tools, JSPM wasn't mentioned. Is it no longer popular? I've had a ok experience using it and systemjs been pretty good so far to get es6 module support and typescript working. I guess JSPM wouldn't fit quite in the build tool category but I see no dependency management section.