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Never accept a counter-offer

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Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#111

Post by fecak »

peteretep wrote: post #96
fecak wrote: post #18

Recruiter here, almost 20 years. Do a search for articles warning about counteroffers and you'll find almost all are written by agency recruiters. Why is that? It's because agency recruiters lose probably millions in fees every year when candidates accept a counter. I have personally lost 30K on a single fee due to counteroffer on more than one occasion. It hurts quite a bit - that's a car - which is why if you accep…

Also a recruiter and was about to write an identical comment, so thankyou

Good to hear. Most recruiters stick to the "counteroffers are bad" script pretty closely in all the articles they post. It's just dishonest and makes us all look bad.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#112

Post by [deleted] »

DominikR wrote: post #72
econner wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you quit to freelance?

If you have the experience, contacts and social skills (very underestimated by many professionals in our field) you can make much more as a freelancer/contractor. I'm now self employed for 4 years and I earn 6x as much as I earned in my last job. (though I believe I was underpaid in my last job)

[deleted]

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#113

Post by Cyph0n »

thraway_perfin wrote: post #109

The "never" bit seems like bad advice. Terrible advice, honestly. I've worked happily at one of the "big" tech companies. Without going too much into details, I ended up getting a really big offer from another one of the big guys (i.e., in the seven figure range over 4 years, obviously with the bulk of it being equity). I was really torn. I was happy at my job, but that's a large enough of money to make a material di…

That's amazing! Well done on pulling out off man :)

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#114

Post by ryandrake »

fecak wrote: post #92
ryandrake wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are only able to get more by threatening to quit, that sounds like a pretty miserable place to me.

This is actually part of the recruiter's script when trying to overcome a candidate accepting a counteroffer. I think the line I was taught was "you only got a raise because you held a gun to their head". This isn't a line I would use, just telling you what recruiters are trained to say.

It's true though, isn't it? Another thing to consider: "Will you have to hold a gun to their head every year?" Interviewing is a pain, and I wouldn't want to have be doing it continuously in order to keep myself at market rate. Let's say (conservatively) you need to interview at an average of 20 companies to get an offer, and that it takes an average of 4 days to prep, conduct each interview, and follow-up. That's 80 days of your life each year just to stay on the treadmill. I've been in situations where I use all of my year's vacation days interviewing at other companies. It's not fun.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#115

Post by chrisbennet »

niccaluim wrote: post #24

Counter offers are a little silly. People in our industry are already making far above the median, which makes it extremely unlikely that money is the motivation behind resignation. More often it's a bad manager—there's a saying that people don't quit jobs; they quit bosses—uninteresting work, change in direction, or some other environmental factor. If you're going to make someone a counter-offer you should also be s…

Uh, no. We in the industry make a lot of value and as such, we should have no compulsion about trying to capture as much of that value as possible.

This is a business relationship. I'm not going to be satisfied earning less than my market value just so another party can make a larger profit.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#116

Post by galdosdi »

ryandrake wrote: post #114
fecak wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually part of the recruiter's script when trying to overcome a candidate accepting a counteroffer. I think the line I was taught was "you only got a raise because you held a gun to their head". This isn't a line I would use, just telling you what recruiters are trained to say.

It's true though, isn't it? Another thing to consider: "Will you have to hold a gun to their head every year?" Interviewing is a pain, and I wouldn't want to have be doing it continuously in order to keep myself at market rate. Let's say (conservatively) you need to interview at an average of 20 companies to get an offer, and that it takes an average of 4 days to prep, conduct each interview, and follow-up. That's 80…

(1) 20 companies to get an offer is very high for software engineering / related work in major hubs (eg NYC, bay, etc)

(2) If you're applying to similar jobs (in terms of skill) then a single amount of prep can be shared among many

I know many who try to "get in the market" every year or so just for "curiosity"

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#117

Post by smileysteve »

> "I have seen researches showing that more than 90% of the employees who accepted a counter-offer are leaving the company after an average of 15 months."

In an industry where the average tenure is about 23 months; this seems neither surprising nor alarming.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#118

Post by charlesdm »

byoung2 wrote: post #36
fecak wrote: post #18

Recruiter here, almost 20 years. Do a search for articles warning about counteroffers and you'll find almost all are written by agency recruiters. Why is that? It's because agency recruiters lose probably millions in fees every year when candidates accept a counter. I have personally lost 30K on a single fee due to counteroffer on more than one occasion. It hurts quite a bit - that's a car - which is why if you accep…

My recruiter practically broke down in tears when I accepted a counteroffer in 2013. Counteroffers can be great tools to increase your salary, whether you accept or reject them. In my case it was purely about money. I was making $117k and I wanted a raise, but the company only wanted to give options. If it were an early stage Google or Uber, I'd go for it, but not this company. I wanted cash. They played the old "not…

Out of interest, why didn't you counter the counteroffer at $140k? Realistically, you could've probably gotten $150-155k on the spot, right there. They basically just showed their hand telling they want/need you to stay.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#119

Post by fecak »

tptacek wrote: post #107
fecak wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's important to differentiate what type of counter it is and whether or not it solves the problem reasonably. A counter can be a pay raise, new role/promotion, or even something like letting someone telecommute. Those are all very different scenarios, and the stereotypical "walks into managers office with shiny offer from competitor demanding more" may have less positive long-term results than the more comm…

I once accepted a counter that included a pay raise, a substantial equity grant, and had my requirements for role adjustments mostly met --- all offered entirely to prevent me from moving to a new job. I shouldn't have! Things were O.K. for about six months, and only then did it clear that I'd been sidelined --- after the company had put in motion its plans for post-me continuity. Basically: they bought themselves ti…

This anecdote is exactly the type of cautionary tale that recruiters use to scare candidates and dissuade counteroffer acceptance. You're a natural!

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#120

Post by vonmoltke »

Clubber wrote: post #100
bunderbunder wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At many companies there are HR policies that make it extremely difficult for your manager to just give you a raise. Oftentimes these policies don't apply to counteroffers. I don't have any opinion on whether this is a good idea or not, but I do think that getting an offer somewhere else can at least be a plausible strategy - possibly the only plausible strategy - for getting a decent raise if you find yourself workin…

Yes, that's another unfortunate thing HR does. If I'm so miserable that I've actively sought, interviewed and received an offer, I'm gone. Like someone else alluded to, most shitty jobs aren't shitty because of pay. I've worked at 2 companies in the last 14 years and they both got really shitty after being acquired by a private equity firm. It usually takes 2 years until it's unbearable. I stayed so long because they…

> If I'm so miserable that I've actively sought, interviewed and received an offer, I'm gone.

Do you not look around unless you are miserable?

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