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Never accept a counter-offer

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Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#31

Post by setr »

"Let’s take an example and say that some Problem A has triggered a need of change. As you are a good employee you have tried already to solve the problem (e.g. you asked for more money or you tried to change the process), you failed. Now, all of a sudden Problem A gets solved in just some 10 minutes. Why wasn’t it solved before? How long will it take until this kind of a Problem B will appear? When Problem B comes, it’s going to hit harder. Things won’t change."

This paragraph bugs me. It's as if the author assumes the workplace to be swarmed with malicious agents, and you, some ambitious, innocent and pure-hearted employee.

Why wasn't it solved before? Because it was cheaper to leave it unsolved.

Suddenly, you introduce a significant cost to leaving the problem (your leaving the company), and so it gets resolved.

And whaddyaknow, it'll happen at any other company too because its pretty damn effective way to operate a business.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#32

Post by ChicagoDave »

I would say that before you consider all offers, you should be aware of your circumstances. Are you integral to your current company? Do you have an open relationship about your career with your current employer? Do you like your current job? Are the benefits something you think about regularly (4 weeks leave time, work from home, fully covered health insurance)?, having researched pay for your level of experience, where are you? (knowing this is critical). If you're on the low end, ask your employer why. If you do get offered a new position, is "total compensation" better (salary - taxes, medical, dental, leave time, additional benefits)? If offered a bonus, remember you have to pay taxes on it.

I tend to agree with the rule "don't entertain counter offers", but if you think you may get one, discuss it directly. A lot of employers will be very honest about your total comp and why they level you there. It's often about their own costs, their own "grid" of salaries, and because they have a "system", they can't really pay you more unless you're promoted to management. It could be about you and if that's the case, they probably view you as expendable and you should almost certainly move on.

Whatever you do, try to minimize the emotions and focus on all of the tangible aspects.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#33

Post by slg »

gozur88 wrote: post #20
throwaway4job wrote: post #7

Counterpoint, I accepted a counter offer two years ago. Since then, I have been promoted twice. I am now one of the highest-paid, and highest ranked individuals in my organization. Additionally, I have been given many opportunities specifically designed to help me grow my career in the direction that I preferred. This has included everything from project assignment, to introductions to board members and VCs, to educa…

You got really lucky. Normally when a company extends a counter offer what they're doing is buying time to ease you out on their terms.

I always hear this, but where do you people work that this is the case? As some who has been on the other side of the table this was never how it worked. Losing a team member sucks. A counter offer is an attempt to avoid that. The idea that your boss would secretly interview your replacement before firing you just seems silly to me. At the most practical level doing something so cold hearted would send every other member of my team searching for a job.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#34

Post by mars4rp »

niccaluim wrote: post #24

Counter offers are a little silly. People in our industry are already making far above the median, which makes it extremely unlikely that money is the motivation behind resignation. More often it's a bad manager—there's a saying that people don't quit jobs; they quit bosses—uninteresting work, change in direction, or some other environmental factor. If you're going to make someone a counter-offer you should also be s…

It is all about point of reference, depends on you are comparing yourself with someone that makes you more in industry or someone that makes less in other industry.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#35

Post by JoeAltmaier »

setr wrote: post #31

"Let’s take an example and say that some Problem A has triggered a need of change. As you are a good employee you have tried already to solve the problem (e.g. you asked for more money or you tried to change the process), you failed. Now, all of a sudden Problem A gets solved in just some 10 minutes. Why wasn’t it solved before? How long will it take until this kind of a Problem B will appear? When Problem B comes, i…

Its only a problem if you assume a supportive employer, one that is looking out for your productivity and success. When you find out your company is only in it for the money, it can be a shock.

I agree its wrong to moralize about it. This is business. You sell your skills for cash. You should be prepared to get the best deal you can. Just asking meekly is a losing gambit. It will take more than that to put wheels in motion (get considered for a raise). Like showing an offer you received.

Now, that said, my son works as an ME at a contract house. The company owner threatens that anyone even looking for a job will be fired summarily. Childish. It just means resentment simmers, and nobody gives notice which has to screw up schedules and hurt their bottom line.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#36

Post by byoung2 »

fecak wrote: post #18

Recruiter here, almost 20 years. Do a search for articles warning about counteroffers and you'll find almost all are written by agency recruiters. Why is that? It's because agency recruiters lose probably millions in fees every year when candidates accept a counter. I have personally lost 30K on a single fee due to counteroffer on more than one occasion. It hurts quite a bit - that's a car - which is why if you accep…

My recruiter practically broke down in tears when I accepted a counteroffer in 2013. Counteroffers can be great tools to increase your salary, whether you accept or reject them. In my case it was purely about money. I was making $117k and I wanted a raise, but the company only wanted to give options. If it were an early stage Google or Uber, I'd go for it, but not this company. I wanted cash.

They played the old "not in the budget, lets revisit in 6 months game" but my ace in the hole was an unsecured network share drive where I found an offer letter for a coworker showing he made $135k. I was genuinely ready to leave so I contacted my recruiter (who had placed me at 2 consecutive companies) and she got me an interview at CAA (the Hollywood talent agency) as a node.js dev. They beat my salary with an offer of $125k, plus some perks like 2 week company shutdown around the holidays, half day before every gov't holiday, generous bonuses and 401k match. The downsides were a commute to Century City, and having to wear a suit everyday.

I went back to my employer and handed in my resignation and told them about the offer. They came back (unsolicited) with a counteroffer of $140k and an extra week of vacation. I took it and told my recruiter. She told me horror stories about people who take counteroffers who get fired or quit within months and how I would never work in this town again, etc.

I stayed at the company for 2 more years and was promoted to director of engineering, and got raises to $155k and then $175k before resigning to work freelance. On my way out the company was begging me to stay and I could only imagine what they'd offer if I chose to entertain them.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#37

Post by elcct »

Clubber wrote: post #26
fecak wrote: post #18

Recruiter here, almost 20 years. Do a search for articles warning about counteroffers and you'll find almost all are written by agency recruiters. Why is that? It's because agency recruiters lose probably millions in fees every year when candidates accept a counter. I have personally lost 30K on a single fee due to counteroffer on more than one occasion. It hurts quite a bit - that's a car - which is why if you accep…

I took a counter once. When you're miserable at a place, for whatever reason, a big pay raise will make you forget it for about 4 months, then you'll be miserable again. Life is too short to be miserable 8+ hours a day.

This is how I picture it http://i.imgur.com/TK9zjDF.gif :D

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#38

Post by kevan »

Clubber wrote: post #26
fecak wrote: post #18

Recruiter here, almost 20 years. Do a search for articles warning about counteroffers and you'll find almost all are written by agency recruiters. Why is that? It's because agency recruiters lose probably millions in fees every year when candidates accept a counter. I have personally lost 30K on a single fee due to counteroffer on more than one occasion. It hurts quite a bit - that's a car - which is why if you accep…

I took a counter once. When you're miserable at a place, for whatever reason, a big pay raise will make you forget it for about 4 months, then you'll be miserable again. Life is too short to be miserable 8+ hours a day.

I'd guess plenty of people are in a situation where they're not miserable at the current company but they would like to get paid more.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#39

Post by GuiA »

Clubber wrote: post #26
fecak wrote: post #18

Recruiter here, almost 20 years. Do a search for articles warning about counteroffers and you'll find almost all are written by agency recruiters. Why is that? It's because agency recruiters lose probably millions in fees every year when candidates accept a counter. I have personally lost 30K on a single fee due to counteroffer on more than one occasion. It hurts quite a bit - that's a car - which is why if you accep…

I took a counter once. When you're miserable at a place, for whatever reason, a big pay raise will make you forget it for about 4 months, then you'll be miserable again. Life is too short to be miserable 8+ hours a day.

It depends on why you got a counter offer in the first place. Accepting a counter offer because you told your boss "I like my job but I'm paid way less than some other companies would be willing to pay me, can we do something about it?" is a very sane thing to do.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#40

Post by Clubber »

GuiA wrote: post #39
Clubber wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a counter once. When you're miserable at a place, for whatever reason, a big pay raise will make you forget it for about 4 months, then you'll be miserable again. Life is too short to be miserable 8+ hours a day.

It depends on why you got a counter offer in the first place. Accepting a counter offer because you told your boss "I like my job but I'm paid way less than some other companies would be willing to pay me, can we do something about it?" is a very sane thing to do.

That's not a counter offer, that's asking for a raise. Counter offer is when you get an offer from another company and tell your boss you want to leave, but your boss makes a counter offer to keep you to stay.
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