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Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

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Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#41
post #21
post #16

I used to have a band teacher who said "practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."

that's it I agree, but what does perfect mean also? perfect absolutely, compared to your potential, or relatively to others?

I always think "perfect" meant "intentional" in that just going through the motions doesn't do the trick but actually being thoughtful about what you're trying to achieve and trying really really hard...

Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#42

I have my own theory. The idea is that there are lots, lots and lots of tiny unspoken things which could make huge difference in long run. And those who successful doesn't necessary know their own tiny things they got right. Let's say there are two persons A and B who is training in chess. Person A trained for X hours and became chess master. Person B trained for 10X hours and didn't get even close to master level. T…

That's why it's important to work hard AND work smart.

Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#43

I have my own theory. The idea is that there are lots, lots and lots of tiny unspoken things which could make huge difference in long run. And those who successful doesn't necessary know their own tiny things they got right. Let's say there are two persons A and B who is training in chess. Person A trained for X hours and became chess master. Person B trained for 10X hours and didn't get even close to master level. T…

Absolutely. I'm a guitarist, and have been for over 30 years. I'm good, but not REALLY good, and I hit a wall in terms of technical ability / speed a long time ago - after about 5 years of playing. Nothing I did improved my speed and I didn't have the accuracy of a Malmsteen or MacAlpine, despite practicing religiously for hours at a time. I thought I had a speed limit and that was that - everyone I consulted felt th…

This is why having a good coach can make all the difference. It does no good practicing the wrong techniques.

Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I'm a guitarist, and have been for over 30 years. I'm good, but not REALLY good, and I hit a wall in terms of technical ability / speed a long time ago - after about 5 years of playing. Nothing I did improved my speed and I didn't have the accuracy of a Malmsteen or MacAlpine, despite practicing religiously for hours at a time. I thought I had a speed limit and that was that - everyone I consulted felt th…

Was it just luck, or are you actually not creative enough to figure out new and useful things in your own? (say, extended guitar playing techniques) An open question so far.

In the history of skills (guitar playing, mastery of swordplay, music composition, etc), it's not inconceivable that someone could go a long time and not happen to notice the same things that masters of the discipline have been taught. Most human endeavors and learning comes not by independent discovery of everything, but by building on what the people before us have learned. It's a rare genius who can skip that.

Swordmasters in the renaissance studied each others' books and teachings, much as physics students might study the publications of others in their discipline. The insights they each made might not have all been in technique itself, but sometimes in new ways of teaching it, or describing the nuances of what their masters ("no, do it THIS way ...") had told them in a different way which made it easier to teach.

For many physical endeavors, it seems like there are often a few Good ways to do something Right -- shoot a bow, hold a calligraphy pen, etc. You MIGHT stumble upon the best way to do it on your own, but it seems a little ridiculous to scoff that someone is "not creative enough" to figure out what nuance of technique they have been missing.

Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#47
post #29
post #22

What happened to that guy that gave up his job to spend 10k hours practicing golf in order to test the "10k hour makes perfect" theory? I was reading the article expecting that to come up. A quick google doesn't find anything on what/how he's doing today (it wasn't this guy, was it?)

you're thinking of this guy: http://thedanplan.com/ basically he was going to reach his 10k hour goal next month (Oct 2016) but back in Nov 2015 he had to take a hiatus due to a back injury. Not sure what has happened since he hasn't posted since Nov 2015.

That's the one, thanks. A bit more sleuthing shows he's given up on The Dan Plan and is now selling soda: http://portlandsyrups.com/our-story/ . Too bad it didn't work out.

Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#48

I have my own theory. The idea is that there are lots, lots and lots of tiny unspoken things which could make huge difference in long run. And those who successful doesn't necessary know their own tiny things they got right. Let's say there are two persons A and B who is training in chess. Person A trained for X hours and became chess master. Person B trained for 10X hours and didn't get even close to master level. T…

Absolutely. I think you just described what in short hand is normally called talent.

Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#49
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it just luck, or are you actually not creative enough to figure out new and useful things in your own? (say, extended guitar playing techniques) An open question so far.

In the history of skills (guitar playing, mastery of swordplay, music composition, etc), it's not inconceivable that someone could go a long time and not happen to notice the same things that masters of the discipline have been taught. Most human endeavors and learning comes not by independent discovery of everything, but by building on what the people before us have learned. It's a rare genius who can skip that. Swo…

> Most human endeavors and learning comes not by independent discovery of everything, but by building on what the people before us have learned.

That's correct!

Like Isaac Newton said - if I have seen further, it is by standing on ye shoulders of giants.

Link: http://digitallibrary.hsp.org/index.php/Detail/Object/Show/o...

Re: Practice Doesn't Make Perfect

#50
post #3

This is a case where I really doubt that the studies referenced in the article were rigorous/well controlled. There are WAY too many talent "hot zones" (small training clubs that produce an extremely inordinate number of champions) for me to be swayed without iron-clad evidence to the contrary. The author talks about being motivated, but I don't think she really understands the scale of motivation. Mozart would typic…

Wouldn't a small, elite training club only take in a relatively small number of athletes that have already shown innate talent? Likewise, top universities will turn out a large number of top scientists. They've already selected for potential at the point of admission.

It should be possible to rule that kind of thing. I recall an anecdote about four table-tennis champions who lived on the same street, and their families hadn't moved in years - rather it was simply that an excellent coach lived on that street and offered to teach anyone who was interested.
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