Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

shift.newco.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 374 posts

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#331

Post by Broken_Hippo »

WalterBright wrote: post #181
nugget wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going from $0 to $1M is almost impossible--going from $1M to $2M is almost inevitable. I know plenty of people who inherited money and blew it all. Very, very few people, even children from ''rich'' families, have an ''infinite money cushion''. People who come from poverty or communities rampant with discrimination often times have to work harder for opportunities. But hard work is hard work, and there is fierce co…

85% of American millionaires are self-made. Source: "The Millionaire Next Door" book.

The point is that most folks that "make it" have some advantages from the start. Their parents might not have been rich, but decently well off. Went to decent schools, were able to make business contacts and network. Might not have had to work while in school either. If their business failed, it didn't mean they were sleeping on people's couches: They had a room at their parents if it got that bad, but they could usually weather the storm.

Again, contacts help with that.

The folks growing up in poverty don't have much of that. Schools are by chance, and often folks work through college so there isn't as much time for networking. Besides, networking costs money. If this person fails, they are simply homeless.

Simply moving up to lower middle class takes some work.

Sure, they are possibly "self-made", but they weren't fighting lack of opportunity.It is simply easier to make it if you have a good foundation.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#332

Post by nickthemagicman »

WalterBright wrote: post #239
nickthemagicman wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wheres the ACTUAL study? Or did the author just call up 5 rich dudes? Seriously are we taking this number as legitimate.. simply because it comes from a BOOK? Is that how low our scientific standards have become? Frickin Pixar verified that talking cars exist. Good enough for me!

The book describes the studies they used. (Correction, it's 80%. I had misremembered it.) You can get the book for $2.50 from Amazon, not a bad investment if you are interested in the topic.

The numbers are not correct or even science.

Its one dude who uses that number to sell his pop psychology book.

Heres a blog from the author about where he gets his numbers:

'In my thirty plus years of surveying and studying millionaires'

http://www.thomasjstanley.com/2014/05/america-where-milliona...

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#333

Post by nickthemagicman »

50CNT wrote: post #281
nickthemagicman wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

85% of wizards are educated at Hogwarts. "Harry Potter" book.

Hogwarts isn't even the largest school, that'd be Uagadou.

Woah I didnt know there were other schools and the world was so rich. Thats cool. My numbers were incorrect.

I hope theres more of a fleshing out of the harry potter world in future books or movies.

An mmo would be pretty tight lol.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#334

Post by HillaryBriss »

wangchow wrote: post #295
khedoros wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. They're saying that those 85% of self-made American millionaires aren't as "self-made" as they claim. Like me: I could talk about starting with almost nothing in my bank accounts, getting a job, working through the ranks, buying a home, and working toward my first million... conveniently leaving out all the advantages that I've had to get me to this point (cultural expectation that I'd go to college…

Honestly no one is self-made. People who don't have financial cushions still rely on others to back their idea and hard work. Problem is everyone on HN is talking about how to make millions when that's backwards mentality because then you'll never be satisfied. People need to strive for modest salaries and things that benefit society and the planet not filling one's pockets.

> People need to strive for modest salaries

So true. In today's US economy just simply having a salary, period, is something one must strive for. Continuity and regularity of compensation has become difficult to obtain.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#335

Post by nickthemagicman »

timedoctor wrote: post #289
nickthemagicman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Its easier to make a million starting from zero than make a million starting with a million' is the essence of what you just said. This is easily the dumbest thing Ive ever heard on this site. Seriously. Can we guild and save this somehow?

Are you talking from your own experience? I am. I made a million dollars and it wasn't easy but it was actually a lot more difficult to invest $1 million and make more money with it. I personally found it a lot more difficult. I think most people greatly underestimate the difficulty in investing money successfully. If you are talking about the amount of time invested ... yes of course there is a lot less time spent i…

Yeah but the point of the post had nothing to do with the difficulty of investing....what are you even going on about?

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#336

Post by googletazer »

bduerst wrote: post #155
googletazer wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They're pointing out that the success for kids born into wealth is typically attributable to family money. That's pretty obvious to me, it wasn't obvious to you? I don't think any of the newly rich, such as say - Zuck were hiding these facts. Zuck went to Harvard, an elite school, and got 100k from the bank of mom and dad to work on his own thing. The issue is that this data doesn't filter to the masses. Since it do…

If it's obvious to you, then why did you go off topic about parents' intentions with their kids? The article is about how having safety nets only for wealthy children leads to a net loss of talent in society. What does "entrepreneurship porn" now have to do with this?

Because in my mind "entrepreneurship porn" is still relevant to this article, by pushing people who should know better than to take a risk when they can't afford to, into risking their livelihoods for uncertain gains. In an ideal world every kid can be what they want to be, but in this one its good to know your limitations as well.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#337

Post by gutnor »

wolfgke wrote: post #327
gutnor wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some truth in what parent is saying though. We have reach a point in the West were a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone. However, we still have the bullish culture from after the war that paints a guy that want a simple life as some sort of loser. So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other, but we teach our children that such a lifestyle is a failure.

Everybody who thinks that their salary is too large is free to donate a large(r) part of the salary to things that he cares of. So if you think you earn a more modest salary, do so. The problem is that most people who talk of "more modest salaries" mean "others should have more modest salaries". Better call this envy. > So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other. I surely don't. >…

> And what made it possible that leading a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone? Surely not the people who want a simple life.

But is pushing everyone to push the boundaries even if they are not driven or motivated not counterproductive at some point ?

Well I may be biased by living in London and working in the financial industry, where personal enrichment seems to be the only accepted way of life. But all the scheming that is done to be on top is definitively keeping competent people out of the loop. Keeping your job is a more valuable skill that excelling at your job, and you don't need much corporate experience to know that there is a very thin overlap between the 2. I see people that are great with children, amazing artists, ... that are just grinding at their job just to keep living a life where they can afford the socially acceptable brand of car, clothes and activities, but dream of the day when they can spend more than a few hours a month doing what they are really good at.

More generally, what about all the support jobs ? Tech is very far away to replace teacher or nurses. Those jobs are loser jobs in a world that only value "potentially world changing career". You are more likely to become a millionaire as a random Goldman Sachs cannon fodder as you are as a nurse. What kind of criminal parent would encourage their kid to teach instead of getting a degree that let them into finance ?

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#338

Post by nathanasmith »

hysan wrote: post #307
nathanasmith wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>How you frame the question can produce vastly different responses. Here are some of the questions on the GSS: In our society everyone must look out for himself. It is of little use to unite with others and fight for one's goals in politics or in unions. 67.7 percent disagreed It is the responsibility of government to meet everyone's needs, even in case of sickness, poverty, unemployment, and old age. 57.3 percent a…

That first statement is hard to agree with because it takes an all-or-nothing stance in a broad manner (must + little use). Most people will disagree because there is probably a "I don't 100% agree" reaction to it. You'd probably get the same reaction going in the opposite direction. In our society everyone must work together to succeed. It is of little use to try and effect change alone as one person cannot make a d…

>>Most people will disagree because there is probably a "I don't 100% agree" reaction to it.

I was trying not to be too wordy in my post but the "disagree" is actually 2 categories split between "mostly disagree" and "strongly disagree" so that covers the "I don't 100% agree" people. Note that there's also "strongly and somewhat agree" categories.

Here's the upshot of this thread. The OP I was replying to made a reference to the "prevailing zeitgeist" in America believing people should be "saved" only if they prove their worth. I checked the most widely respected social survey and it contradicts that assertion by a wide margin. As far as the questions being biased or people 100 percent agreeing as has been mentioned, either a couple of random internet commenters are right or the most cited source in mainstream social science[0] is. Personally I'll go with the latter.

[0]http://gss.norc.org/About-The-GSS

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#339

Post by allovera »

rubberstamp wrote: post #316
allovera wrote: post #63

This article had me in tears. I grew up so poor I often didn't have shoes and wore dollar-store flip flops in the winter. Deadbeat dad, opiate addict mother. I was shuffled constantly from relative to relative, friend's house to friend's house. I had some very supportive teachers, including one who paid for my AP tests and SATs. I got an offer to a university in the UC system. Life was looking up! In the last semeste…

I am sorry you had such a tough time. I think your dad and mom are also the victims in this. If they had money they wouldn't have turned out that way. There are only so many things you can do to make money and sometimes no matter how hard you try, you wouldn't get a job. When you have less money people are very vulnerable to being negative and become depressed. Its so hard to escape from it without proper support, wh…

>I think your dad and mom are also the victims in this.

They had plenty of money. Some people are just bad people. Sometimes these people are someone's parents. You do not know the situation and believe me, you are making a bit of an ass out of yourself.

>I wish you will move away from amazon. I hear horrible stories about how they treat their low level employees.

I'm treated very well here. Amazon depends greatly on the team: mine is a very laid-back, exciting team and we do not have on call. Again, you're making an ass out of yourself.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#340

Post by ryandrake »

gutnor wrote: post #337
wolfgke wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody who thinks that their salary is too large is free to donate a large(r) part of the salary to things that he cares of. So if you think you earn a more modest salary, do so. The problem is that most people who talk of "more modest salaries" mean "others should have more modest salaries". Better call this envy. > So we go on holiday and marvel at the simple life of artisans, farmer or other. I surely don't. >…

> And what made it possible that leading a comfortable life is basically possible for everyone? Surely not the people who want a simple life. But is pushing everyone to push the boundaries even if they are not driven or motivated not counterproductive at some point ? Well I may be biased by living in London and working in the financial industry, where personal enrichment seems to be the only accepted way of life. But…

These are two insightful and underrated points. I'm going to store them away somewhere if you don't mind. Have an up vote!

> Keeping your job is a more valuable skill that excelling at your job, and you don't need much corporate experience to know that there is a very thin overlap between the 2.

This is true in most companies, not just finance. The fact that these 2 activities are orthogonal and require entirely different skill sets is one of the more frustrating aspects of corporate life, giving rise to: very talented people who end up grinding away as drone#19221 because they aren't great at "managing upward" and smooth talkers who BS their way into higher and higher roles.

> I see people that are great with children, amazing artists, ... that are just grinding at their job just to keep living a life where they can afford the socially acceptable brand of car, clothes and activities, but dream of the day when they can spend more than a few hours a month doing what they are really good at.

Again, welcome to work everywhere. For most people, a job is the thing you do for money so you can live, and save up to finally do what you are good at or love when you're old and retired.

Post reply on HN