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TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

cycligent.com

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Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#31

Post by winter_blue »

seanwilson wrote: post #30
edem wrote: post #27

I simply don't understand how can someone like javascript (or anything derived from it) when there are so many much better languages around. Can someone state some advantages for web development for example compared to ruby, python, or clojure? All I see is a slow tangled mess of dependencies and broken libraries with a package manager which lets you change already released modules and a language which is even more p…

Well you don't have much choice for frontend for one. Typescript offers much stronger typing than Ruby, Python, Clojure and PHP as well.

If I were to start a new project today, I would use Elm[1] for the front-end. It's a very well-designed language (reminiscent of Haskell), specifically designed with HTML and DOM manipulation in mind.

[1] http://elm-lang.org/

Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#32

Post by ceronman »

edem wrote: post #27

I simply don't understand how can someone like javascript (or anything derived from it) when there are so many much better languages around. Can someone state some advantages for web development for example compared to ruby, python, or clojure? All I see is a slow tangled mess of dependencies and broken libraries with a package manager which lets you change already released modules and a language which is even more p…

I am a Python fan and I'm not a huge fan of JavaScript, but I do understand why many people love using JavaScript/TypeScript:

1. It's available in the Browser which opens a lot of possibilities. Yes, there are transpilers for other languages but it's not the same.

2. On the server side is really fast. In fact JavaScript is one of the fastest dynamic languages out there. Much better performance than Python (even with PyPy), Ruby or Perl.

3. With TypeScript you get amazing IDE support. Which is something that you just don't have with Ruby, Python or Perl. Yes, I'm aware of PyCharm, but it's not up to the things that you can do with VS and TypeScript.

4. I know the language has some design mistakes, especially around operators and other few things. But in the end the language is small enough and simple enough that it's easy to learn. And it's also easy to learn how to avoid the pitfalls of the language as well. So in the end that's not much of a problem. Besides that, even when the language is simple, it's still quite powerful because of its dynamicity, closures and prototype oriented programming. In the end you can be as concise as you are with Ruby, Python or Perl.

Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#33

Post by chriswwweb »

edem wrote: post #27

I simply don't understand how can someone like javascript (or anything derived from it) when there are so many much better languages around. Can someone state some advantages for web development for example compared to ruby, python, or clojure? All I see is a slow tangled mess of dependencies and broken libraries with a package manager which lets you change already released modules and a language which is even more p…

Being able to reuse the code you wrote for the server in your client code and vice versa, is in my opinion not just a small feature, it can save you a lot of time and money.

I joined a company where the backend was written in PHP and the frontend in javascript. There was a ton of duplicate code, just because the backend and the frontend had been written in different languages. By using UMD modules and switching our backend from PHP to nodejs by building a custom isomorphic framework saved us a lot of time. We now don't have two development teams but just one, it's really great having everyone write (speak) the same language and makes hiring, sharing knowledge and training much more efficient.

Yeah javascript is not perfect, but I disagree that is totally bad and that you can't write good code with it.

We also use typescript because it is not just about types it does much more for us. For example allows us to write our code in ES6/ES7 (with core-js) and transpiles it on the fly (on save file) to ES5 UMD modules. Visual Studio and the nodejs tools make it easy to debug our backend code.

Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#34

Post by _pmf_ »

smegel wrote: post #6
wtbob wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you're going to transpile, why not transpile from a real language, not a Turing tarpit?

Well Google already did that with Java and GWT, but it never caught on. I guess TS being a superset of JS itself might be an advantage...otherwise it is still a new language designed for web browser programming unlike Java. I suppose it is a fair question why they didn't just use C#.

> Well Google already did that with Java and GWT, but it never caught on.

ClojureScript uses the Closure(sic) compiler from GWT to compile Clojure/Java to JavaScript (not that I defend this technological train wreck).

> I suppose it is a fair question why they didn't just use C#.

This would have been superb, but I think Microsoft wanted to show that they "get" web developers; just mentioning C# causes the JS pundit get jittery because someone wants to limit the amount of write-only code he is able to spit out.

Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#35

Post by chriswwweb »

winter_blue wrote: post #31
seanwilson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you don't have much choice for frontend for one. Typescript offers much stronger typing than Ruby, Python, Clojure and PHP as well.

If I were to start a new project today, I would use Elm[1] for the front-end. It's a very well-designed language (reminiscent of Haskell), specifically designed with HTML and DOM manipulation in mind. [1] http://elm-lang.org/

Is using elm really worth it? I have not yet tried elm, but I wonder if it's advantages really justify the increased costs that this choice might bring? Isn't elm a little bit too young?

I mean is the time you and your coworkers will need to learn it, the increased difficulty to hire skilled elm developers, the increased difficulty to find good training courses for new junior developers you hire, the increased difficulty to debug the code compared to js, the lack of third party libraries ... really worth it?

Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#37

Post by JackMorgan »

tribby wrote: post #3

to save readers the time I've just wasted, here are the two sentences about typescript in this sales pitch for cycligent.js: "I am able to keep the freedom and expressiveness of JavaScript to which I have become so accustomed while getting enterprise-level type checking and refactoring capabilities. Declaration of objects and interfaces is a dream."

"Between Java and Typescript, Typescript is my favorite."

Aka

"Of the two languages I know, Typescript is my favorite."

Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#38

Post by coldtea »

skrebbel wrote: post #17
ilurkedhere wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on Earth is "enterprise-level type checking"?

Enterprise-level capabilities . I know the E-word is taboo here but aren't you people exaggerating a but on the trolling?

"Enterprise-level capabilities" doesn't mean anything still.

Google is bigger than most enterprises, and they don't use any "enterprisey" stuff, not even in their Java.

Re: TypeScript Seals My Penchant for JavaScript

#40

Post by seanwilson »

winter_blue wrote: post #31
seanwilson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you don't have much choice for frontend for one. Typescript offers much stronger typing than Ruby, Python, Clojure and PHP as well.

If I were to start a new project today, I would use Elm[1] for the front-end. It's a very well-designed language (reminiscent of Haskell), specifically designed with HTML and DOM manipulation in mind. [1] http://elm-lang.org/

Sounds interesting and I'd love to code in a real functional language instead of functional style in an imperative language. I haven't looked into Elm but isn't this going against the grain too much? TypeScript seems to be gaining traction such as with Angular 2. I mean I could code in OCaml with a transpiler to JavaScript if I wanted to but it probably isn't worth the friction.
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