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The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

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Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#211

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mc32 wrote: post #112
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should, of course, be fair to all people. Especially as the most powerful country on earth, to play the gorilla is patently unfair.

And I also mean fair to all immigrants by granting all of any potential immigrants equal chance of acceptance, regardless of geography --but with an eye toward their potential contribution to the US --just as many other nations' immigration policies do. Let's also remember, up and till WWi we were not a rich country. We were quite rural and not all that excellent. Many of today's poor countries were not that far behi…

Revisionist history. During the US Civil war, there were two great armies in the world, and the US Army of the North was number one. Number two? The US Army of the South.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#212

Post by JoeAltmaier »

IPbanned wrote: post #149
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair? You mean, maximum benefit to Americans. We're supposed to believe all people have inalienable rights to life, liberty etc. I'm willing to allow folks suffering abroad to find a haven here. That sounds fair to me.

1. America's responsibility should be to its own people, not to the entire world's. 2. Brain drain is a real problem. Letting the smartest, most motivated, wealthiest etc. migrate from the third world only exacerbates the problems at home. They're losing the people best endowed to fix their societies. If you really want to be a philanthropist (rather than paying lip service while you profit off wage arbitrage), you c…

You want smart technical people to stay behind in a civil war? You go there.

And as the most powerful, we cannot stand by and pretend everybody else is on their own. That is the most irresponsible thing any country can do. Even Poland helps their neighbors unconditionally in time of need. And they're no better off.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#213

Post by drcode »

drewrv wrote: post #138
drcode wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is basically "everybody's doing it, everybody is breaking a law somewhere" and that it's OK for people to break one law because other people are breaking a different law. I think a more sensible approach than saying "lawbreaking is OK" is for the parties on Capitol Hill to forge a compromise that involves (1) easier legal immigration (2) better funding and more enforcement of existing immigration laws (…

I think the major disagreement isn't whether law breaking is ok or not. The question is whether violating US immigration laws is a serious crime that requires harsh punishment or a minor crime the requires a slap on the wrist. The "apologize, pay a token fine, get a work permit" crowd thinks violating immigration laws are like speeding, pot, or jaywalking laws. The "deport them all" crowd thinks violating immigration…

Sure, speeding might be a misdemeanor, but no one in their right mind will continue doing it of they see police lights in their rear view mirror.

Similarly, illegal immigration may be a misdemeanor, but you can't continue doing it after you're caught.

Deportation is not meant to be punative, it is simply the mechanism needed to bring you back in compliance with the laws you've knowingly broken.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#214

Post by kevinmchugh »

TelmoMenezes wrote: post #209
baldfat wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs are still illegal and dealers and traffickers are still put in prison. People as user are brought to specific court called "Discussion Panels." Repeated users are given various forms of treatment. Recreation users can also have community service and fines. Never work in USA though since the Police work with the Healthcare system and so if a offender stops going to treatment at their doctor's office the office c…

> Drugs are still illegal and dealers and traffickers are still put in prison. You are correct, but there are a few nuances. An important one is that methadone started being provided to treat heroin addiction. Providing a pharmacological-grade opiate to make the addict's life bearable was an important shift in mentality. It also worked really well in solving the actual social problems caused by hard street drugs. I t…

Methadone is available in the US. It's controversial here, not least because recipients have to take their dose at a clinic, in front of staff, to ensure the methadone isn't being sold or used in incorrect doses. There are lots of NIMBY fears related to the clinics, as many people don't want recovering addicts in their neighborhood everyday. So clinics are not well distributed, and treatment isn't free.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#215

Post by bruno_samar »

fiblye wrote: post #114
zkhalique wrote: post #78

I would express the same sentiment about illegal immigrants. This is to all the people who support Donald Trump's rhetoric about deporting all 11 million undocumented immigrants. These people fled the drug gangs and violence that our war on drugs helped create (think fleeing ISIS) and came to work jobs no one else would take and make a better life for their family. Yes technically they broke a law. If you're going to…

One thing I find worrying about arguments in favor of illegal immigration/very lax immigration policies is how easily it can come across as being in favor of indentured servitude and having a lower class to support the upper class. We say they do jobs "nobody else wants to do" for suboptimal wages, and they do it right because they fear what'll happen if they don't. And we proudly say that they contribute by paying t…

I think this comes down to the contract really, and you could make an argument about many contracts which are not morally right (like marrying a 50 year old grandma on her death-bed and going away with all the inheritance. Is that right?). Sweeping under a rug will not be solved by banning immigration, or making it stricter, that would exclusively make it worse. Lax laws would actually tremendously help those kind of modern slaves. So i dont really see your point.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#216

Post by TheBeardKing »

random_upvoter wrote: post #197
AstralStorm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means more money to invest in the country fixing issues, hopefully, instead of being wasted on mansions for corrupt politicians or spent recklessly. For example, issues that cause crime. Wouldn't that be nice? Or at least advancement of science and engineering. Someone gets to fund the space program.

OTOH once marijuana is legal it is just another crop and I would expect to price to drop to near zero. Combined with the fact that you hardly need kilograms of it, I wouldn't get too excited about future tax revenue.

Don't ignore the cost of all the regulations marijuana has in addition to regular crops - for growers, transporters, and sellers.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#218

Post by ojbyrne »

greggman wrote: post #105

Maybe it was buried in there but what I didn't see is a graph showing the amount of money spent on dealing with marijuana related crimes that is now going to other crimes. They pointed out crime didn't go down. Fine. All that could mean is that the police etc focused on other crimes instead of the mostly victim-less marijuana crimes from when it used to be illegal. Even if expenditures on crime don't change the fact…

I suspect that police forces would be loath to unbundle any statistics about marijuana-related crimes because they are going to resist any potential budget cuts from that, and correspondingly, it will take a while for any savings to materialized because of organization resistance.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#219

Post by soundwave106 »

redwood wrote: post #196
gcb0 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you failed to read the one paragraph conclusion. both pro and cons arguments were wrong. absolutely nothing relevant has changed. crime didnt go up nor down. neither did taxes. etc. nada. also, ted is only relevant to rich pot heads ;)

That's partially because it has not been legalized in a non-nearly-exclusively-caucasian state yet. Meaning it hasn't been legalized in a state where there are many marijuana arrests. I'm not exageratting... I've never met a caucasian person who's been arrested for marijuana posession. Never . And yet here in NYC alone, on the order of 50,000 people (almost exclusively of color) are arrested every year for marijuana…

The Cato report unfortunately did not go into arrests. It may seem like stating the obvious, but from what I see, that's one area where there legalization has been significant impact. Even in states like Colorado which are less racially diverse than some, arrests have decreased a lot and court filings have plummeted. (See: http://cdpsdocs.state.co.us/ors/docs/reports/2016-SB13-283-R...)

A policy which has no significant impact, except to stop law enforcement from wasting time on trivialities, is fine by me.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#220

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mc32 wrote: post #119
prostoalex wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you then in favor a visa-free regime between United States and other Northern/Central American countries? It just seems silly to pay for the infrastructure for visas, passport verifications and border control, and the current status quo rewards only illegal immigration path.

Indeed. People who go the regular route are punished and have to wait and wait, get denied, etc. meanwhile irregular immigrants blow right past them.

By 'irregular' we mean impoverished desperate people? Who have no means to afford paperwork and lawyers? Being fair to the (relatively) wealthy is a strange sort of fairness.
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