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Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

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Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#191

I was starting to get worried about the data collection already happening individually at these big companies. Now that they have announced a partnership which potentially combines all this data together, I feel so much better! The funny thing is, the companies are ALWAYS going to put a positive spin on this. Not very different from the WhatsApp "we won't show ads, ever" messaging. Now I am in the camp which says "Fo…

>Now that they have announced a partnership which potentially combines all this data together, I feel so much better!

That's not going to happen. Their data is worth too much and it would lose its value if they shared it with competitors.

>Interestingly, the only company which is even making noises about user privacy is Apple. Is it possible they saw something in this partnership that they didn't like?

Apple aren't good at developing software. Having them in on this wouldn't benefit anyone but themselves so I doubt they were even asked. They're a company that makes shiny looking things with shiny looking interfaces.

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#192
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major book about ethics, "After Virtue", takes as half of is subject matter what the author calls "the interminable nature of ethical debates" and the failure of post-enlightenment ethical thinking. I don't see how AI is going to suddenly make us capable of ethical reasoning on a large scale... unless... maybe AI could do the reasoning for us...

Are you talking about the AI we make which simulate a process we don't fully understand?

Yes. Maybe it can invent ethical reasoning that's obscure enough that people can believe it—like a new kind of priest.

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#193
To quote Pedro Domingos in "The Master Algorithm" [1]:

> But everyone has only a sliver of it [information about you]. Google sees your searches, Amazon your online purchases, AT&T your phone calls, Apple your music downloads, Safeway your groceries, Capital One your credit-card transactions. Companies like Acxiom collate and sell infor- mation about you, but if you inspect it (which in Acxiom’s case you can, at aboutthedata.com), it’s not much, and some of it is wrong. No one has anything even approaching a complete picture of you. That’s both good and bad. Good because if someone did, they’d have far too much power. Bad because as long as that’s the case there can be no 360-degree model of you. What you really want is a digital you that you’re the sole owner of and that others can access only on your terms.

Does this mean that effectively all of Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft will have the whole picture? That makes me worried.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Master-Algorithm-Ultimate-Learning-Ma...

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#194
post #164

I was starting to get worried about the data collection already happening individually at these big companies. Now that they have announced a partnership which potentially combines all this data together, I feel so much better! The funny thing is, the companies are ALWAYS going to put a positive spin on this. Not very different from the WhatsApp "we won't show ads, ever" messaging. Now I am in the camp which says "Fo…

Modern machine learning depends heavily on data. If you have 100x the data, your algorithm is going to outperform a superior algorithm in most cases, because the data is the source of the intelligence. It's a big, scary barrier for startups, for innovation, and we're running the risk of creating data superpowers that can't be competed with. Some algorithms don't perform well until they have a threshold of data. When…

"THERE IS NO OVERSIGHT!"

Should there be? I'm not quite sure. I mean, personally I feel a lot safer managing my own data privacy with what I give these companies, rather than having a government do it for me. And I'm not exactly a libertarian, I just think it's rational that this should be decentralized, the risk of a company turning against "us" is a lot less than a government, given history.

"I've switched away from Facebook, and now I've lost touch with a lot of friends. They are my friends, why can't I export them? Why can't I export the data that belongs to me, and use it in some open-source format that allows me to reap the benefits of all the work that I spent tracking them down inside of Facebook's private garden?"

You can. https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference

All those "What does your friend list say about your love life?" type surveys use it.

"As a society, we need to start addressing these things, or we are going to end up with Internet giants that we don't have the means to get rid of, and that aren't at risk of being out-competed."

We've heard this a lot over the years, but I've really never seen a case of a company that can't be out-competed. Who is it up to to "get rid" of an organization? On what basis? People stop using their services, and they stop making money is generally how it works. Otherwise, Antitrust law is the main mechanism today, isn't that sufficient?

People forget that Google didn't ask permission or get oversight or contact copyright holders when building a search engine. They hooked a couple servers on the web and started crawling it with their algorithm, and replaced other search engines pretty quickly because they had a better service. One could say that it's impossible to compete with Google, but I'm not so sure: Bing is doing fine (if small share), DuckDuckGo is growing, etc. Adding more oversight/regs to the Web just makes it harder to replace these companies.

I'm sure plenty wanted to "get rid" of Microsoft in the 90s because of their attitude and growing monopoly, and certainly they were fettered by the U.S DOJ., but looking back, the calls to break them up were a bit silly. No one would have predicted Apple was going to become much, much bigger (some still can't believe it).

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#195

The moment I saw the headline, I noticed Apple missing from the list, and it felt right! Facebook, Amazon, Google...Microsoft...IBM...all coming together to promote (sell) AI? This sounds like the coming together of the evil powers. Apple, however successful it may continue to be financially, needs to focus on a wider penetration of its devices and services if there is to be any meaningful dent on the privacy front a…

Good point. I find it funny to read other comments here of "who cares about Apple not being in the group?". Apple is just one of the most successful companies of all times and it demonstrates over and over to have a bit more integrity and commitment to guarding user's privacy. Kudos to Apple.

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fear mongering. Some of the ideas I hear from people on this forum, from academia, and the likes are just downright terrifying, and we don't even know what future AI will be capable of. We have to decide as a society, and decide really soon how far we are willing to take AI research. We built the nuclear bomb, but we decided when to stop. We didn't build more advanced bombs that could level entire providence…

Curious: Do we actually know that we stopped nuclear advances? I'm guessing it's not something that would be publicized.

The end of the Cold War took a lot of the urgency out of nuclear weapons research, and with the urgency went the funding. That's why the US nuclear arsenal consists of designs from the 1960s and 70s, with little or no manufacture more recent than the 80s, and a litany of canceled programs from the 90s on.

Quite aside from that, there's a point past which chasing higher yields results in a loss of strategic flexibility, which is why both we and the Soviets eventually gave that up. (You can attack one big target with multiple warheads, but you can't attack multiple targets with one big warhead.) Modern nuclear weapons research and engineering, whatever there may be of it, would concentrate on boring stuff like improving efficiency and reliability, and reducing mass.

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#198

I was starting to get worried about the data collection already happening individually at these big companies. Now that they have announced a partnership which potentially combines all this data together, I feel so much better! The funny thing is, the companies are ALWAYS going to put a positive spin on this. Not very different from the WhatsApp "we won't show ads, ever" messaging. Now I am in the camp which says "Fo…

So you're basically saying that this is a "Cartel on AI".

What I'd like to see is all of the consortium members sign a pledge that none of them will sell or use their AI technology for defense/military purposes (mainly looking at you Microsoft/IBM/Amazon).

I could see how 10 years down the line, the US government tries to co-opt the group to help it in its wars. This needs to be preempted now, in the same way they should've preempted calls for encryption backdoors by adopting end-to-end encryption years before and making it the status quo, before the government even gets a chance to think about it. They mostly failed in doing that, but I hope they won't fail with this.

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#199
post #5

At the risk of ad hominem, this is typical techcrunch reporting: >> "Though Apple is said to be enthusiastic about the project, their absence is still notable because the company has fallen behind in artificial intelligence when compared to its rivals — many of whom are part of this new group." How exactly is it that TC knows that Apple has indeed fallen behind? Are they privy to the Apple ML roadmap? Are they using…

Honestly this comment reads like an emotional outburst, by someone who has zero clue about the domain. Its very well known fact in AI/ML community, that Apple has almost little or no talent nor do they have any major efforts at organizational level (E.g. FAIR at FB, MSR, Brain & Deep Mind at Google). >> But in Machine Translation, Apple is ahead. LOL where did you get this from? I am pretty sure that Google NTM which…

I'm not sure that "Apple is behind" follows from "Apple doesn't publicize".

Re: Facebook, Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft Create Partnership on AI

#200
1. These companies have been collecting our information for years now. Some have acces to what we write in are emails, but of course, they never read them, they just scan them for marketing purposes?

2. Why do I feel certain people's information has been looked at, scrutinized, cross checked, collated, etc. by certain savvy insiders. Warren buffet, George Sorrows, any of the financial movers and shakers, information is sitting on a server somewhere, unless you're a Clinton. If I had access, I could help but look at it.

Before you made an investment, bought a stock, bought realeste, took over a company; wouldn't you be tempted to peak at some of that information?.

3. I feel certain individual information has been used as research for financial gain.

3. I belive it's basically insider trading without the other guy knowing he/she gave away any information.

4. I believe it will be exposed, and will be the next huge Financial scandal.

5. I believe this move might be a smoke screen. "We know some of us have already abused private information for personal/financial gain. Let's combine the data. It might put some reigns on what we all know some of our insiders have been doing. Let the people think we are doing this to better society.

6. I don't have any evidence, I just have a hard time believing no one is looking at juicy date pouring in from some high profile people.

7. I believe it will be on the front page of Forbes in less than a year.

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