Live data from Hacker News

The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

cato.org

181–190 of 274 posts

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> came to work jobs no one else would take > If there are jobs that are structured such that only an illegal immigrant, who by definition exists outside the normal labor pool and its protections, will take Typically, that statement also refers to jobs that are perfectly legal, but most Americans wouldn't take anyway. For example, many of the experienced people reading this wouldn't drive a cab, deliver pizzas, work…

I've done almost all of those things before (general maintenance rather than construction, and I've never driven a cab) -- including retail sales at an electronics chain (Radio Shack before Best Buy was the thing) -- and would again if I didn't have better prospects elsewhere (with my experience and expectations of the future labor market, I don't expect to need to do any of those things again, but that's a different…

I have a feeling you are more like the average person here.

When the economy goes into a recession, or our current line of work is down sized; we take a chit job.

Only the elite can wait around until something palatable opens up.

My problem with people so desperate for money, is they come here illegailly, or just happen to somehow get some bogus paperwork by the federal government, and will do practically any job.

A large swath of American employers know they can use these people, treat them poorly, and make a better ROI in their particuliar business venture.

Construction trades--love them. It's gotten so bad, if I took my general contractor's licence out of non-op status, I honest don't know if I could be competitive without hiring the people who will work for minimum wage, or less.

("How do these workers manage to live on the U.S., if you pay them so little? They have different cultural norms than the average American. They see nothing wrong with bunk beds, and four, or more to a residential bedroom. Maybe the average American should get used to living like this; that's another debate.)

So basically, my gripe is certain employers are thrilled they can get away with underpaying their employees. If they do it shroudly, they can live the American Dream--nice house, happy wife, a bunch of spoiled kids.

There are so many business that use this business model.

I have very wealthy neighbors in Marin County. Yes, that liberal enclave north of San Francisco. Literally every landscaper on this block doesn't speak English, nor do most of the plumbers, and handymen. The DINK's like to gab, and a lot of the talk is just how cheap they get their jobs done. My next store neighbor literally brings two low wage helpers to Home Depot in her Mercedes. Their job is to follow her around, in her high heals, and carry her stuff to the car. Then they spend the rest of the day at her disposal. (I'm glad they are doing this job.)

In the end, it makes chit jobs hard to find when Americans are layed off, or fired.

Before we had this huge sector of society that will literally do anything, for practically noting; chit jobs were better. That was in the 80's, and 90's. By the 2000's it was over. They were here, and spoiled the low wage job sector even further.

That's where the anger comes in. It has nothing to do about Trumps claims of "Rapists--and sometimes, good citizens", etc.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#182
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarianism, as envisioned by the Koch brothers, is AMAZING when you're rich. You simply remove all government functions that protect the poor from the wealthy, and re-create feudal Europe. What's not to love???

This argument rests on the assumption that the Government mainly benefits the poor and powerless.

No, it explicitly states that it only removes that which benefit the poor in regards to their relation with the rich.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#183
Hooray for the scientific type approach of trying drug policies and studying the results. I'm ambivalent about marijuana legalisation and the results look fairly neutral but there are other policies like prescribing heroin like drugs to addicts so as to cut out the pushers, thefts and deaths through bad drugs that could probably save thousands of lives. I hope those get some experimentation and testing too.

There's a small scale experiment here http://health.spectator.co.uk/the-case-for-prescription-hero...

Excerpt:

>Inspector Michael Lofts studied 142 heroin and cocaine addicts in the area, and he found there was a 93 per cent drop in theft and burglary. ‘You could see them transform in front of your own eyes,’ Lofts told a newspaper, amazed. ‘They came in in outrageous condition, stealing daily to pay for illegal drugs; and became, most of them, very amiable, reasonable law-abiding people.’ He said elsewhere: ‘Since the clinics opened, the street heroin dealer has slowly but surely abandoned the streets of Warrington and Widnes.’

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#185
I like this, an honest analysis.

One major argument about crime I didn't see addressed was the revenues going to organised criminal gangs before and after.

I'm also not sure about the paper's claim that advocates claim a fall in crime, in general, from Cannabis legalisation. I can see the argument that decriminalising and medicalising heroin addiction may decrease various forms of crime, particulary acquisitive crime. But with cannabis?

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#186
post #183

Hooray for the scientific type approach of trying drug policies and studying the results. I'm ambivalent about marijuana legalisation and the results look fairly neutral but there are other policies like prescribing heroin like drugs to addicts so as to cut out the pushers, thefts and deaths through bad drugs that could probably save thousands of lives. I hope those get some experimentation and testing too. There's a…

The bit about addicts becoming dealers to feed their own addictions and so spreading the problem seems obvious in retrospect, but I don't think I've seen that argument made before.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#187
post #183

Hooray for the scientific type approach of trying drug policies and studying the results. I'm ambivalent about marijuana legalisation and the results look fairly neutral but there are other policies like prescribing heroin like drugs to addicts so as to cut out the pushers, thefts and deaths through bad drugs that could probably save thousands of lives. I hope those get some experimentation and testing too. There's a…

You might find reports about just this from Switzerland. Zurich started as early as 1994 with a program, which provides clean drugs, and safe places to take them, to proven addicts.

It's been quite a success and the program is now nation-wide and backed by laws.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#188
post #185

I like this, an honest analysis. One major argument about crime I didn't see addressed was the revenues going to organised criminal gangs before and after. I'm also not sure about the paper's claim that advocates claim a fall in crime, in general, from Cannabis legalisation. I can see the argument that decriminalising and medicalising heroin addiction may decrease various forms of crime, particulary acquisitive crime…

Many people get ground in the gears of the criminal justice system in the U.S. with charges of marijuana possession. In my state, sharing with a friend can get you hit with a possession with intent to sell or deliver charge, which is a felony.

A felony conviction almost guarantees you'll do time. You will go to jail. You will probably lose your job and have trouble getting a new one. Life changes in significant ways. But in jail, you will have met people, and those people may have opportunities for you. Some people decide that since they already have a criminal record after that first conviction, they might as well take risks to get by.

Let me be clear about this. I'm not saying marijuana criminalizes people. I'm saying outlawing marijuana criminalizes people. And it's easy for me to believe that legalizing marijuana is likely to result in an overall fall in the rates of incidence of other types of crime.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#189
post #183

Hooray for the scientific type approach of trying drug policies and studying the results. I'm ambivalent about marijuana legalisation and the results look fairly neutral but there are other policies like prescribing heroin like drugs to addicts so as to cut out the pushers, thefts and deaths through bad drugs that could probably save thousands of lives. I hope those get some experimentation and testing too. There's a…

If you google "portugal drug legalization study" you'll find plenty of positive results.

Re: The Effect of State Marijuana Legalizations

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done almost all of those things before (general maintenance rather than construction, and I've never driven a cab) -- including retail sales at an electronics chain (Radio Shack before Best Buy was the thing) -- and would again if I didn't have better prospects elsewhere (with my experience and expectations of the future labor market, I don't expect to need to do any of those things again, but that's a different…

I have a feeling you are more like the average person here. When the economy goes into a recession, or our current line of work is down sized; we take a chit job. Only the elite can wait around until something palatable opens up. My problem with people so desperate for money, is they come here illegailly, or just happen to somehow get some bogus paperwork by the federal government, and will do practically any job. A…

> They have different cultural norms than the average American. They see nothing wrong with bunk beds, and four, or more to a residential bedroom.

So, just like silicon valley programmers then?

http://boingboing.net/2013/12/21/live-in-a-san-francisco-ike...

People will do what they need to, to improve their lives. I don't completely disagree with your post, but this comment was unnecessary and off base. You make it sound like they wouldn't be happier with more space and a nicer living quarters. They are human beings, of course they would be. Yet, they are willing to risk everything and put up with pretty desperate living conditions to come to the US. Maybe there is a reason.

Post reply on HN