Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#61

Post by zakk » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 6:53 AM UTC

mystique wrote: post #40

It's easy to dismiss the push for diversity by saying that women themselves do not want to go into tech. I used to believe the same when I saw most of my girlfriends opt for non-tech majors - their reason being this is not my cup of tea. Made me feel superior for not only choosing tech, but also being successful academically and later in career. Now that I have kids, I realize how early the push for conformation to s…

Besides your anecdotal evidence, there are strong proofs that the society is NOT influencing a woman's choice too much.

A gigantic survey (I could find references if you are interested) has shown that from ultra-repressive environments (Muslim or African countries) to ultra-liberal countries (Northern Europe) the percentage of women going into CS is about the same. It actually decreases a bit in progressive countries.

This strongly supports the fact that the environment does not matter, biological differences do.

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#62

Post by tdkl » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 7:03 AM UTC

bonniemuffin wrote: post #54

tw04 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand? Because I really, really don't understand. How do you "gear" a programming course towards a gender? I can't recall a single example in any CS course I ever had that was anything more than writing code. I honestly can't even fathom how you would make that gender or race biased. It's mathematics and programming.

Here's just one example of how little moments in class can impact student's ideas of whether CS is interesting and whether they "belong" in it. It's easy for CS teachers to get boys excited by introducing a new topic with something like "these algorithms are important in VIDEO GAMES!" Boys are vastly more likely to play video games than girls, so this example will likely be much more motivating to boys than girls. Gi…

So you're claiming men are more childish?

As parent said, all it matters is writing code and if women aren't interested in that as much men typically aren't in professions usually filled by women, that's their choice.

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#63

Post by CJefferson » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 7:42 AM UTC

belorn wrote: post #32

CJefferson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many programme to try to increase male elementary school teachers, you just don't hang around on elementary school related forums.

The Swedish institute for higher education made a study that looked at the teaching profession, and their conclusion was perfectly clear on this. There are barely any programme to increase the number of male teachers, and this was in stark contrast to the long history of programs to get more women into tech and engineering. They suggested that teaching universities, who just now are beginning to address the lack male…

This is moving the goalposts from the post I originally replied to. I have no idea of the relative number of initiatives in different areas. The idea that men need pushing more into some industries is a newer idea, and it wouldn't suprise me if it is further behind. However, that wouldn't be a reason to have less "women in tech" movements, just more "men in X" movements too -- it's not like the same people would be doing both anyway I imagine.

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#64

Post by VeejayRampay » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 7:58 AM UTC

bonniemuffin wrote: post #54

tw04 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand? Because I really, really don't understand. How do you "gear" a programming course towards a gender? I can't recall a single example in any CS course I ever had that was anything more than writing code. I honestly can't even fathom how you would make that gender or race biased. It's mathematics and programming.

Here's just one example of how little moments in class can impact student's ideas of whether CS is interesting and whether they "belong" in it. It's easy for CS teachers to get boys excited by introducing a new topic with something like "these algorithms are important in VIDEO GAMES!" Boys are vastly more likely to play video games than girls, so this example will likely be much more motivating to boys than girls. Gi…

I think the male to female ratio in gaming at large is pretty much 1:1 now.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games#Demograp...

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#65

Post by rimantas » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 12:02 PM UTC

TheLilHipster wrote: post #60

I don't really think there's much of an issue here. Equal opportunity ≠ equal outcome. I truly believe equal opportunity exists and the issue is more cultural than institutional.

Yes, one thing I constantly miss in discussions is understanding that equilibrium does not mean 1:1 ratio.

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#66

Post by ZeroGravitas » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 12:16 PM UTC

jkot wrote: post #33

throwaway2016a wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't quantify it. Sociology is not my field. However, it has been my experience that men are expected to have a fair amount of recklessness and irresponsibility that woman are not. Examples: - Men being with many woman during college is considered experimenting, whereas for woman it is considered slutty. - A man answers wrong on a question in class and people just move on. A blond woman does the same and she's a d…

> Men being with many woman during college is considered experimenting Or it is considered a rape. General advice today is to treat college as a workplace and date girls outside, who are not students. > A blond woman does the same and she's a dumb blond. I seen many dumb men > A woman fails, and it's because maybe women aren't cut out for this. ...or maybe it is because of environment, conditioning.. When women fails…

> Or it is considered a rape. General advice today is to treat college as a workplace and date girls outside, who are not students.

Does this advice lead to less women feeling that they've been raped, or does it just minimize the consequences for the person accused because the accuser is poorer and lacks institutional support (such that it is)?

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#67

Post by Senji » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 1:17 PM UTC

VeejayRampay wrote: post #64

bonniemuffin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's just one example of how little moments in class can impact student's ideas of whether CS is interesting and whether they "belong" in it. It's easy for CS teachers to get boys excited by introducing a new topic with something like "these algorithms are important in VIDEO GAMES!" Boys are vastly more likely to play video games than girls, so this example will likely be much more motivating to boys than girls. Gi…

I think the male to female ratio in gaming at large is pretty much 1:1 now. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games#Demograp...

Only if you conflate all genres AND age brackets together.

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#68

Post by Senji » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 1:25 PM UTC

RandyRanderson wrote: post #31

I wonder what the relation is between "We need more in " and the average salary of workers in a sector?

Detrimental. Average Salaries plummet as more women join a field. They don't bargain for raise as much as men instead settling for less and thus drive prices down.

Also more available labor pouring in will always decrease salaries.

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#69

Post by bonniemuffin » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

tdkl wrote: post #62

bonniemuffin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's just one example of how little moments in class can impact student's ideas of whether CS is interesting and whether they "belong" in it. It's easy for CS teachers to get boys excited by introducing a new topic with something like "these algorithms are important in VIDEO GAMES!" Boys are vastly more likely to play video games than girls, so this example will likely be much more motivating to boys than girls. Gi…

So you're claiming men are more childish? As parent said, all it matters is writing code and if women aren't interested in that as much men typically aren't in professions usually filled by women, that's their choice.

Nope. Examples involving whatever girls do for fun these days would also be fine. I'm just not hip to what teen girls are doing for fun. "This is how you make snapchat"?

Re: Melinda Gates Has a New Mission: Women in Tech

#70

Post by bonniemuffin » Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 2:49 PM UTC

VeejayRampay wrote: post #64

bonniemuffin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's just one example of how little moments in class can impact student's ideas of whether CS is interesting and whether they "belong" in it. It's easy for CS teachers to get boys excited by introducing a new topic with something like "these algorithms are important in VIDEO GAMES!" Boys are vastly more likely to play video games than girls, so this example will likely be much more motivating to boys than girls. Gi…

I think the male to female ratio in gaming at large is pretty much 1:1 now. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games#Demograp...

Right there in your link:

"While 48% of women in the United States report having played a video game, only 6% identify as gamers, compared to 15% of men who identify as gamers. This rises to 9% among women aged 18–29, compared to 33% of men in that age group."

They might play a game now and then, but women are less likely to identify themselves as "gamers" or to think of gaming as a part of their identity. When we think about creating an inclusive environment where students can see themselves in the career, this is the sort of statistic to consider.