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Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

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Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#101

Post by vidarh »

finid wrote: post #22
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

Until California, Texas, New York, etc become independent countries, the comparison will always be made against the US. I'm sure some folks in Texas are itching to secede, but until that happens, we compare other countries with the US, not California, Texas, or New York.

Comparing European countries to California is actually fairly common. We like comparing ourselves to California in particular, apparently - it's rarer to see comparisons to other states.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#102

Post by NetStrikeForce »

angry-hacker wrote: post #85
duaneb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The states in the US may vary, but so do regions in Spain and other countries. From whose perspective? A us state, Spain, or a third party?

Probably he referred to Spain's situation where several regions want independence and they also happen to be wealthiest - Basque country and Catalunya. They have their own culture and own language. That happens inside (!!! ) a country in Europe .

No, it's more about the GDP per capita difference between Matadepera (58k EUR) and Montefrío (9k EUR), both Spanish towns.

Source: http://www.lavanguardia.com/vangdata/20150520/54431341415/ra...

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#103

Post by __jal »

jomamaxx wrote: post #91
a3camero wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a well-known Canadian Supreme Court case about transfer pricing that highlights the role of a Swiss subsidiary in a scheme to dramatically reduce taxes on income earned from selling pharmaceuticals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_v_GlaxoSmithKline_Inc

Transfer pricing is not 'tax evasion' - it's 'tax avoidance'. To be clear, 'tax evasion' is illegal. Most companies do what they can to avoid paying taxes, which is rational in some ways, but they usually don't do anything illegal. It's important that we don't mix the two :)

Important to whom? I intentionally do not make a distinction. I'm not going to start, because the point is important to me.

The distinction matters to: decision-makers at the firm in question, shareholders of the firm in question, the sovereign collecting the taxes[1]. And given the the dispute resolution with large corps' tax issues rarely involves people going to jail or even admissions of fault, I'm not sure why anyone outside of that group should care about the (extremely blurry) legality boundaries.

Bottom line: most of the rest of us have no obligation to care about their word-choice sensitivities and are free to use language for our own ends.

[1] Possibly noninclusive list.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#104

Post by ucaetano »

erispoe wrote: post #66
ucaetano wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes and payroll taxes are much lower in Switzerland than in France, for example, so an employee might cost the same to the company in both countries, but have much more net income in Switzerland. Most people don't see payroll taxes, only income taxes. Having a large percentage of foreigners and English-speakers also contributes to that, as well as the clustering effect (IBM Research has a lab in Zurich since 1956).

The median income in Switzerland is PPP$35,083 and PPP$24,233 in France. The main difference is in healthcare, which in Switzerland is entirely private, post-payroll, and can easily amount to $500/month, whereas in France it's part public (payroll) part private. And the private part is usually paid on payroll too. Health insurance is mandatory in Switzerland, so it really is not disposable income, even if you have pr…

The healthcare wouldn't even account for half of the difference.

And you're not taking in account the payroll taxes. France has a combined payroll taxes of almost 40%, while Switzerland is So not only Swiss workers make more money, but they also cost less than French workers.

Source: OECD, http://taxfoundation.org/article/comparison-tax-burden-labor...

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#105

Post by hibikir »

acchow wrote: post #56
kukx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The states in the US may vary, but so do regions in Spain and other countries. And the differences are often way bigger than between any pair of states. It would be more unfair to compare separate US states with European countries. While US states share a common fate, the same can't be said about say Germany and Greece even though they are both in the EU.

> While US states share a common fate Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Individual US states are pretty close to sovereign. Other than ability to tax and a few other things, the US federal government doesn't have much power.

A few other things, like interstate commerce, which the supreme court interprets as so broad as to cover a whole lot of things. The amount of shared laws are staggering compared to the EU equivalent. There's also how medicare and social security are national, which makes a world of a difference when it comes to interstate mobility.

The shared taxes that you mention are also huge: how different would Europe be if Germans were really on the hook for Greek budgetary issues?

Look at this in practical terms: if the US states really resembled sovereigns, you'd have far wider differences in economic performance. Outcomes would diverge more widely if states were really doing things that were really all that different. We'd see incredibly different unemployment rates too. But in the US that can't really happen, because ultimately the federal government has everyone's back, and you don't see big, country threatening arguments about how California federal taxes are spent in other states: Those situations were possible back when the federal government was really weak, but the aftermath of the civil war took care of all of that.

Along with the legislative differences, there's also a far more unified culture across states, if just for the shared language, and thus media. I can move from Missouri to California pretty easily: Better weather, higher taxes, but most of the rest stays about the same. Moving from an EU country to another is far more traumatic in comparison, which also makes each country be far more unique than US states.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#106

Post by hiou »

kowdermeister wrote: post #89
HSO wrote: post #2

It better be, given the cost of living and the salaries here… :-) On a more serious note, although I have no idea how this report was produced, one might note that it was produced by the WEF (a business-friendly Swiss organisation) and that it may well be part of the ongoing political debate in Switzerland on how to implement the referendum result on restricting immigration. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, objectiv…

Is it easy to get a job in Switzerland as developer + EU citizen? Is it likely to change because of immigration regulations?

Yes

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#107

Post by rakyll »

jsnell wrote: post #10
PetitPrince wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proximity to both ETH and EPFL, two relatively well regarded academic institutions ? Full disclosure: I'm certainly biased since I'm both Swiss and a recent graduate from EPFL.

Mostly irrelevant. I would be surprised if more than 10% of the Zurich-based Google engineers are Swiss or products of the Swiss education system.

I had a big group of coworkers from EPFL when I was working for Google Switzerland. At some point, I actually questioned whether we have a bias for these schools.

EPFL or ETH are definitely not something I'd consider as just "Swiss education system". These schools are what Stanford or Berkeley are in their region, and are highly international.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#108

Post by PetitPrince »

tigershark wrote: post #74
erispoe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland managed to build a highly specialized economy in several high-value sectors: pharma, banking, computer science, micro-mechanics, manufacturing machines...

ok, why all the high tech industries that come to my mind are based in SV, UK, SE Asia, Japan but I can't thing of anything in Switzerland? Honestly it is the first time in my life that I hear the association computer science - Switzerland..

Also pharma/biotech: Novartis, Roche, Synthes...

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#109

Post by icantdrive55 »

I have a few questions for Swiss expats.

Could you tell me about the Swiss culture--at bit? I know it's a huge topic. Just some of the differences you see between the Swiss, and say Americans.

I mainly interested in the Millenials.

What do they think of Americans?

Do they basically have the same hobbies?

Are their any stark differences in what they value?

Do they view Americans as spoiled?

Do they fear us?

This next question is very specific, and probally weird. I heard teens love 50's Cadilliacs. I love them too, but I heard they are more desired there, than in America? What is it about older Caddys?

Are their fashion differences? Here we have kids spending hundred of dollars on tennis shoes, specifically Nikes. Has that fad hit Switzerland?

Are women more, or less fashion conscience than Americans?

Just any insider observation?

I've been interested in Switzerland since I began Watch Repair a decade ago.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#110

Post by mastazi »

vidarh wrote: post #99
tigershark wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, why all the high tech industries that come to my mind are based in SV, UK, SE Asia, Japan but I can't thing of anything in Switzerland? Honestly it is the first time in my life that I hear the association computer science - Switzerland..

> Honestly it is the first time in my life that I hear the association computer science - Switzerland.. Some names you might recognize: * Niklaus Wirth (Pascal, Modula-II, Oberon etc.; retired professor at ETHZ) * Jurg Gutknecht (Oberon; EHTZ) * Erich Gamma (one of the "Gang of Four" behind the Design Patterns book; co-wrote JUnit; studied at University of Zurich) * Urs Hölzle (Google SVP of Technical Infrastructure…

> A lot of people can also be traced back to Wirth.

Martin Odersky, the creator of Scala and javac, was born in Germany but received his PhD in Zurich, at EHTZ, under Wirth's supervision[1]. Odersky is now a professor in Lausanne at EPFL [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Odersky

[2] https://people.epfl.ch/martin.odersky/bio?lang=en&cvlang=en

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