I stopped contributing to stackoverflow, but it's not declining • Hacker News Board

Re: I stopped contributing to stackoverflow, but it's not declining

#191

Post by Bartweiss » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 1:37 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #180

kzisme wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of what exactly? The last question I answered got deleted by moderators.

Specifically this: > ... seeing a top answer with ~150 points that's simply wrong, and then a second or third answer with ~20 points that's actually correct.

I wrote it, I'll see if I can dig up a link later.

The example I was specifically thinking of was asking "I want to do X, the API call is producing bad data, any workarounds?" and getting a highly-upvoted answer of "Just use the API, obviously!" This was Android, with devices mis-reporting their valid camera resolutions via 'getSupportedResolutions()'.

I realize that's not wrong to the same level as "Java Hashmaps are synchronized!", but it's a good example of what I mean. I often see this when the top response just reproduces an error the question was addressing.

Re: I stopped contributing to stackoverflow, but it's not declining

#192

Post by Silhouette » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

Shog9 wrote: post #181

Silhouette wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always been true to some extent, but I think it's SO that changed relatively recently, not the rest of the web. In the earlier days of SO, it used to be that a search engine might return an SO link or two but they had a decent chance of being relevant. At that time, SO was smaller, the questions being asked were more common and general, and thus the answers were mostly correct and widely applicable. Today, unfor…

Funny you mentioned "keyword stuffing"... Came across a related sub-thread on reddit earlier today [1], where a bunch of folks were trash-talking one of the top answerers in the [java] tags for his efforts in marking duplicates and removing irrelevant tags. There is an insane amount of hostility directed toward anyone trying to minimize the noise Stack Overflow generates, I'm afraid. Folks feel entitled to spam the w…

So a lot of folks are left feeling that their choice is between trying to help and getting blasted with vitriol, or just walking away and letting entropy win. I find it hard to blame those who opt for the latter route.

As do I. In fact, I empathise with them, because I've been a high profile contributor to discussion/support forums at various points in the past. I've seen firsthand how the culture in each forum makes a huge difference to how motivated you are to continue helping out there.

Unfortunately, while that might explain my original observations about the poor signal/noise ratio and problems with effectively spamming search engines that SO has today, it doesn't make those observations any less accurate.

The only way I see this improving now is if those running the SO network intervene directly, first by encouraging a more constructive approach and being clear with high-ranking contributors on what that involves, and then if necessary by starting to reduce the privileges of those who don't play along regardless of their score in the game and ultimately, if necessary, kicking the bad apples off the system entirely.

Re: I stopped contributing to stackoverflow, but it's not declining

#193

Post by coryfklein » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #183

coryfklein wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes, if you just can't seem to communicate some policy concept to your target audience, it's a problem with the policy, not the communication. I agree 100%. If you were to claim that the "on topic" policy for Stack Overflow is too narrow, I would respectfully disagree.

Yep, I think it's too narrow. I'm more than happy to agree to disagree! I'm curious though, since you're certain this is the correct policy, why do you think it has been so hard to communicate?

Probably because the general internet population is conditioned to a "one place fits all" approach. Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc all are places where any content of any kind is welcome.

I personally think the Stack Exchange network is effective because it creates communities that specialize rather than a single generalized community. But new arriving users have a preconceived conception that all content is welcome.

I think a lot of that could be alleviated by binding together the "Stack Exchange Network" into a more cohesive single site though. Kind of how each subreddit can have its own rules, culture, and community, but it's still very clearly part of Reddit TM.

It would be neat if there was a single entry point into the Stack Exchange Network where you could post a question, with a dropdown for selecting which "network" you think is most appropriate.

They do appear to slowly be increasing this sort of cross-syndication between network sites, but it definitely has room for improvement.

Re: I stopped contributing to stackoverflow, but it's not declining

#194

Post by coryfklein » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 7:49 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #182

coryfklein wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an interesting and common response to the policies. As if the "Too Broad" close policy is the only thing stopping volunteer contributors from writing a 10 page thesis "How To Write A Video Game" for every questioner that asks for it.

Isn't this alleviated somewhat by marking duplicates? If nobody ever writes any good answers on the original question, oh well! It's just annoying when nobody can write a good answer to a broad question. But hey, it's their site, and I'm just some rando on the internet - they get to make whatever policies they want.

My emphasis was less on the replication of effort, which duplicate tagging definitely resolves, and more on the idea that broad open-ended questions raise the bar for a well-qualified high-quality answer far above and beyond that needed for a simple and concise question of limited scope.

Allowing such questions effectively lowers the percentage of questions that get good answers, thereby training users NOT to expect an answer to a posted question, and leading to decreased engagement.

On the other hand, by disallowing such questions, the questions that do get asked are more likely to be answered, and this encourages repeat visits and increased engagement.

Re: I stopped contributing to stackoverflow, but it's not declining

#195

Post by domador » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:17 PM UTC

bhandziuk wrote: post #162

domador wrote: post #98

I never even STARTED contributing to Stack Overflow, because of the high barrier to entry for new users. Since now you essentially can't post a question without answering several yourself, I didn't bother asking questions about certain thorny technical issues. I tried a couple of times, ran into the barrier, and gave up. Maybe some of these could have been the kind of thought-provoking questions that the blog post's…

I don't know if you were being hyperbolic but asking a question requires no previous community engagement. There is no barrier to entry. This is part of the issue with SO though in that so many people ask questions without trying to figure things out for themselves or because it is their first time asking a question on the internet they have a very hard time with it. Veteran users are frustrated by new user's attitud…

No, I was not being hyperbolic. When I tried asking a question, the site told me I had to answer a number of other people's questions first (or something along those lines) before I could post my question. It happened on a couple of separate occasions, and then I just stopped trying. Maybe they've removed this restriction since then, but it was sure annoying (and discouraging).

Re: I stopped contributing to stackoverflow, but it's not declining

#196

Post by sanderjd » Mon, Oct 03, 2016, 3:49 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #194

sanderjd wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this alleviated somewhat by marking duplicates? If nobody ever writes any good answers on the original question, oh well! It's just annoying when nobody can write a good answer to a broad question. But hey, it's their site, and I'm just some rando on the internet - they get to make whatever policies they want.

My emphasis was less on the replication of effort, which duplicate tagging definitely resolves, and more on the idea that broad open-ended questions raise the bar for a well-qualified high-quality answer far above and beyond that needed for a simple and concise question of limited scope. Allowing such questions effectively lowers the percentage of questions that get good answers, thereby training users NOT to expect…

Hey, by the way, in case you happen to come back and see this after the fact: I've found your perspectives in this thread compelling, and while I'm not completely convinced, I'll definitely be incorporating your arguments into my thinking in the future.

Just thought I'd let you know you haven't been shouting into the wind!