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Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

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Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#61

Post by bmm6o »

finid wrote: post #22
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

Until California, Texas, New York, etc become independent countries, the comparison will always be made against the US. I'm sure some folks in Texas are itching to secede, but until that happens, we compare other countries with the US, not California, Texas, or New York.

Stating that it's what will always be done really dodges the question of it's what should be done.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#62

Post by tn13 »

I will not be surprised. Switz is also easily among the top 10 most economically free countries in the world. Economic freedom, competitiveness and foreign direct investments are so well correlated with economic freedom.

Australia's ranking seems extremely puzzling though. The general perception is that it is very very competitive economy.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#63

Post by __mp »

HSO wrote: post #9
jahnu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the cost of living proportional to competitiveness? Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example. I'd love to know what the incentives are for them.

Well, in Google's case, there's ETH Zurich. Just today, I saw in the newspaper (WSJ university rankings[1]) that ETH was rated top of the pops globally in computer science. (On a related note, I remember vaguely that Disney built a research lab here in Zurich just because of one professor and his team.[2]) Also, in the good old times (= before the rise of right-wing populism and the referendum) Google could attract g…

Disney Research Zürich is super awesome. I did my master thesis there

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#64

Post by oh_sigh »

oblio wrote: post #49
oh_sigh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, since NY state has 3x the area, 2.5x the population as Switzerland. It seems crazy to lump Mississippi and North Dakota in the same basket as NYC

By the same criteria we shouldn't talk about Russia but about Moscow or Sankt Petersburg or not about China but about Beijing or Shanghai. Every countries has regions which are less well off. But most comparisons lump everything up. Otherwise madness ensues trying to create "proper" economic divisions...

Sure, why not? It's not like these rankings are useful in any way anyway.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#65

Post by raphaelj »

heydenberk wrote: post #57
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

I was making this point a few weeks ago and after looking into it more, I still think it's a valuable point to raise, but the truth is more nuanced than I expected. States in the US vary in nominal GSP per capita by only 2x — from Mississippi at $35K to Delaware at $70K. In the EU, it ranges from Bulgaria at €6K to Ireland at €55K. (This excludes DC and Luxembourg, which are outliers in many ways.) In fact, even Miss…

I think you forgot to take into account the fact that that Europeans don't work as much as North Americans: https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

That doesn't entirely explain why revenues in the US are that much higher than revenues in Europe however. The fact that the current trade value of the € against the $ is significantly lower to what it was ten years ago (European debt crisis) also partially explain the different revenues between the two continents.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#66

Post by erispoe »

ucaetano wrote: post #27
jahnu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the cost of living proportional to competitiveness? Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example. I'd love to know what the incentives are for them.

Taxes and payroll taxes are much lower in Switzerland than in France, for example, so an employee might cost the same to the company in both countries, but have much more net income in Switzerland. Most people don't see payroll taxes, only income taxes. Having a large percentage of foreigners and English-speakers also contributes to that, as well as the clustering effect (IBM Research has a lab in Zurich since 1956).

The median income in Switzerland is PPP$35,083 and PPP$24,233 in France.

The main difference is in healthcare, which in Switzerland is entirely private, post-payroll, and can easily amount to $500/month, whereas in France it's part public (payroll) part private. And the private part is usually paid on payroll too.

Health insurance is mandatory in Switzerland, so it really is not disposable income, even if you have provider choice.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#67

Post by cloudjacker »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #53
cloudjacker wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a funny conclusion about Vienna because Austrian banks are great for tax evasion and pretty much reporting of anything. Some jurisdictions market slight nuances in their laws to foreigners as a perk, and other jurisdictions simply have, and if you can read you can avoid the stereotypes.

FWIW you are an idiot if you use Austrian banks for tax evasion.

Now, yes

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#68

Post by erispoe »

guest wrote: post #15
jahnu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the cost of living proportional to competitiveness? Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example. I'd love to know what the incentives are for them.

"Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example." The reason is simple: tax-evation and the like, Swiss is well known for it around Europe. That it hasn't been dealt with is not strange since we live in the age of hidden plutocracy (trading outposts and the like exist in many countries for the rich…

Switzerland managed to build a highly specialized economy in several high-value sectors: pharma, banking, computer science, micro-mechanics, manufacturing machines...

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#69

Post by oblio »

oh_sigh wrote: post #64
oblio wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same criteria we shouldn't talk about Russia but about Moscow or Sankt Petersburg or not about China but about Beijing or Shanghai. Every countries has regions which are less well off. But most comparisons lump everything up. Otherwise madness ensues trying to create "proper" economic divisions...

Sure, why not? It's not like these rankings are useful in any way anyway.

That's almost like saying: "since we can't have perfect comparisons, let's have no comparisons at all".

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#70

Post by kukx »

acchow wrote: post #56
kukx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The states in the US may vary, but so do regions in Spain and other countries. And the differences are often way bigger than between any pair of states. It would be more unfair to compare separate US states with European countries. While US states share a common fate, the same can't be said about say Germany and Greece even though they are both in the EU.

> While US states share a common fate Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Individual US states are pretty close to sovereign. Other than ability to tax and a few other things, the US federal government doesn't have much power.

> Individual US states are pretty close to sovereign. Other than ability to tax and a few other things, the US federal government doesn't have much power.

But the idea of the geographical transfer of resources is there. While Texas may not want to refinance american banks, the FED doesn't care. Germany may not want to refinance Greece, and the European Central Bank can't enforce it. [0]

>> While US states share a common fate

> Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

It's a great question. You can get the best answer from the following article: https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100510_europe_nationalism_...

[0]: https://geopoliticalfutures.com/lehman-brothers-and-germany-...

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