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Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

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Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#31

Post by davidw »

slantedview wrote: post #24
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

Whether talking about the US as a whole or any particular state, we don't compare to the modern European countries. One important way we don't compare is that healthcare and retirement costs are a massive drag on our economy. Just an hour ago I received an e-mail from my employer letting me know that their 401k matching is decreasing 1% next year, but that they're cool with it because it's still "competitive". The re…

> American competitiveness is a joke.

Not really. "It's complicated" and there are many aspects to it.

US health care is terrible, for instance, in terms of costs/benefits. The startup I worked for in Italy dedicated all of 0 person-hours to health care or health insurance stuff because it's none of their business. Big advantage.

OTOH, the public pension system in Italy is pretty creaky and I would not trust it a lot. There are a bunch of people who got to retire at like 55 or 60, which is pretty early for a country where many people live quite long lives, and are no longer doing hard manual labor.

"At will" employment in the US is way, way more flexible than the kind of system they have in Italy where you'd pretty much have to murder someone while on the clock to get fired. Definitely a win for business.

There are all kinds of things to compare countries on, and it's not simple.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#32

Post by ucaetano »

jsnell wrote: post #10
PetitPrince wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proximity to both ETH and EPFL, two relatively well regarded academic institutions ? Full disclosure: I'm certainly biased since I'm both Swiss and a recent graduate from EPFL.

Mostly irrelevant. I would be surprised if more than 10% of the Zurich-based Google engineers are Swiss or products of the Swiss education system.

Not at all. Proximity to those universities helps create a high-tech cluster, just as Ames, Stanford and Berkeley created the SF Bay Area's high-tech cluster.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#33

Post by noobermin »

erichocean wrote: post #13
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

> different states have different economies Eh, not really. Central bank-controlled states are a reasonable grouping measure, which is why it's the US, EU, Switzerland, the UK, etc. that people compare (even though the UK is part of the EU, and Switzerland has signed on to most economic measures the EU mandates).

A central bank (and thus a state that can perform monetary policy) is important, but in many of these reports and rankings they do cut across the Eurozone. For example, this competitiveness report places Eurozone nations against one another in the ranking (see page 15 for the ranking, US is #3 behind Singapore and Switzerland).

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#34

Post by maxerickson »

Swizec wrote: post #16
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

In that regard, is it really fair that the US has a single Olympics team? Or a single world-level anything team?

Of course not, but the IOC is a private enterprise that engages in trying to get as much attention for their events as possible, so you get an embrace of borders instead of arguments about what would be fair.

I think there is probably room to compare economies in different ways. It's certainly notable that California has roughly the same size economy as France, but it isn't the only comparison you would want to make when trying to compare the economic situation in the US to the economic situation elsewhere. But if you were considering the availability of opportunities, you might start with the few US states with the largest economies just like you might start with the few EU countries with larger economies.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#35

Post by cloudjacker »

guest wrote: post #8

Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example. The reason is simple: tax-evation and the like.

Thats a funny conclusion about Vienna because Austrian banks are great for tax evasion and pretty much reporting of anything.

Some jurisdictions market slight nuances in their laws to foreigners as a perk, and other jurisdictions simply have, and if you can read you can avoid the stereotypes.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#36

Post by oh_sigh »

brotherjerky wrote: post #26
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

Does that mean you should breakout London from the rest of the UK? Frankfurt from Germany?

Maybe, since NY state has 3x the area, 2.5x the population as Switzerland.

It seems crazy to lump Mississippi and North Dakota in the same basket as NYC

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#37

Post by maxerickson »

finid wrote: post #22
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

Until California, Texas, New York, etc become independent countries, the comparison will always be made against the US. I'm sure some folks in Texas are itching to secede, but until that happens, we compare other countries with the US, not California, Texas, or New York.

What are you gonna do about it if someone makes a comparison of the economies of US states to the economies of countries?

Like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states... for instance.

Your phrasing is as if the popularity of the per country comparison makes it impossible to discuss any other comparison. But that's not the case.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#38

Post by kukx »

noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

The states in the US may vary, but so do regions in Spain and other countries. And the differences are often way bigger than between any pair of states.

It would be more unfair to compare separate US states with European countries. While US states share a common fate, the same can't be said about say Germany and Greece even though they are both in the EU.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#39

Post by slantedview »

davidw wrote: post #31
slantedview wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether talking about the US as a whole or any particular state, we don't compare to the modern European countries. One important way we don't compare is that healthcare and retirement costs are a massive drag on our economy. Just an hour ago I received an e-mail from my employer letting me know that their 401k matching is decreasing 1% next year, but that they're cool with it because it's still "competitive". The re…

> American competitiveness is a joke. Not really. "It's complicated" and there are many aspects to it. US health care is terrible, for instance, in terms of costs/benefits. The startup I worked for in Italy dedicated all of 0 person-hours to health care or health insurance stuff because it's none of their business . Big advantage. OTOH, the public pension system in Italy is pretty creaky and I would not trust it a lo…

Not sure if you confused my comment with someone else's. I never said it wasn't complicated, I said it's a joke, for exactly the reasons you mention among others.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#40

Post by bbctol »

noobermin wrote: post #20
Swizec wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that regard, is it really fair that the US has a single Olympics team? Or a single world-level anything team?

Very good point! I'd say that in one case, you are dealing with averages over a population, and averages definitely wash out differences which I think are important. An Olympics team is a different statistic, the max of the distribution, the cream of the crop. One is a sports competition and another are a set of rankings that give us insight into a population and how their culture and laws affect the performance of s…

If anything, population size matters way more when picking out the cream of the crop than the averages. I think the point being made is less about the Olympics specifically and more that it makes little sense to divide up the US economy by state when the US is very clearly one single country.
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