Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous? • Hacker News Board

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#51

Post by rpazyaquian » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:37 PM UTC

Nav_Panel wrote: post #24

rpazyaquian wrote: post #10

The main problem I have with ketogenic diets is that it's actually quite difficult and sometimes expensive to eat a 90-95% fat diet. I tried it for a while, and since I couldn't have carbs OR too much protein, I had several instances where my dinner in a pinch was melted down cheese and half-n-half. Your diet basically becomes cheese and avocados with some, but not too much, salmon or chicken. I'm not arguing that it…

> The main problem I have with ketogenic diets is that it's actually quite difficult and sometimes expensive to eat a 90-95% fat diet From what I've seen, your diet should be ~60-70% fat, 5% or less carbs, and ~25-35% protein. Definitely not 95% fat. > I had several instances where my dinner in a pinch was melted down cheese and half-n-half. Your diet basically becomes cheese and avocados with some, but not too much,…

I prolly fucked the diet up, then. It certainly _felt_ like I was eating almost all fat...good to know that I can take advantage of cheap fatty meats like short ribs, oxtail, and marrow then.

As for vegetables, I missed carrots and peas too much. Mustard greens and broccoli are apparently okay, though. I could always just make salads out of baby spinach and arugula, but I suck at making salad dressings.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#52

Post by davio » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:39 PM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #16

davio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should listen to the Tim Ferris podcast with Dominic D’Agostino. It's pretty fascinating what Dominic does with keto diet as a researcher.

Could you provide a synopsis or a bit more info regarding the relevance to the topic at least?

Dominic is a PhD researcher in this area. He has a lot of DOD type work where the Navy Seals want "Ketogenic Diet in a Pill" because subjects under ketosis are more resistant to oxygen toxicity when diving at depth.

http://www.onr.navy.mil/Media-Center/Press-Releases/2015/Oxy...

Dominic is also a super-strong guy and deadlifts like 600+ pounds while in ketosis. It's a fascinating 2 hour podcast. I don't think you'll be able to listen to it without wanting to be in ketosis.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#53

Post by jlturner » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

DigitalJack wrote: post #43

jlturner wrote: post #11

I'm on my third ketogenic diet stint, and I can attest to how fantastic it is. I'm narcoleptic and I experience nearly no symptoms on the diet, my fiancée is epileptic and is transitioning off her meds to the ketogenic diet (with the supervision of her nutritionist and neurologist), and a former employee uses it to keep her benign tumor from spreading (actually! And she's totally normal, again with doctors). All of u…

I could have written this post. While I am not technically narcoleptic, this whole year I haven't been able to do with out an afternoon nap (where nap == 3 hours, sometimes more). I've just started a ketogenic low calorie diet, and mentally I feel great. I did go to bed early yesterday but I haven't needed a nap in a few days. The mental part is a big deal for me. I haven't felt actually "awake" for a long time. Alwa…

That's awesome that your doctor is working with you, most will just push drugs to treat the symptoms (usually modafinil or xyrem). I wish more doctors would suggest or support dietary change.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#54

Post by tiku » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #40

jlturner wrote: post #11

I'm on my third ketogenic diet stint, and I can attest to how fantastic it is. I'm narcoleptic and I experience nearly no symptoms on the diet, my fiancée is epileptic and is transitioning off her meds to the ketogenic diet (with the supervision of her nutritionist and neurologist), and a former employee uses it to keep her benign tumor from spreading (actually! And she's totally normal, again with doctors). All of u…

>Bread is delicious Bread taste sooo good when you haven't eaten in a long time, it really is addictive.

I can concur. Thats the one thing thats hard about switching, here in the Netherlands bread is THE lunch thing. I found low carb bread at the supermarket, so i can eat that, it has a lot less carbs. Lifesaver!

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#55

Post by coldtea » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

jlturner wrote: post #11

I'm on my third ketogenic diet stint, and I can attest to how fantastic it is. I'm narcoleptic and I experience nearly no symptoms on the diet, my fiancée is epileptic and is transitioning off her meds to the ketogenic diet (with the supervision of her nutritionist and neurologist), and a former employee uses it to keep her benign tumor from spreading (actually! And she's totally normal, again with doctors). All of u…

I started 3 weeks ago, and have been losing weight steadily (10 pounds in 3 weeks), have no real appetite (can go for half a day without eating something, but force myself not too), and am more alert during the day at work, without the "sleepy" low period in the afternoon anymore.

I eat mostly what's allowed on "Atkins 2.0, stage 1", plus some small stuff that's not like watermelon). Scientifically the calorie intake is more important than the what (for losing weight), but this diet helped me reduce that too.

>Why stop? Bread is delicious and it make social eating event difficult / less engaging. You can take a meal off from the diet and be fine, but it's a slippery slope of will power.

Can try with some extra rules, like "only on weekends", "only when having dinner at friends house" and also limit it to specific "light" items, not full-on refined-sugary/starchy stuff.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#56

Post by rpazyaquian » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:45 PM UTC

ni-hil wrote: post #20

rpazyaquian wrote: post #10

The main problem I have with ketogenic diets is that it's actually quite difficult and sometimes expensive to eat a 90-95% fat diet. I tried it for a while, and since I couldn't have carbs OR too much protein, I had several instances where my dinner in a pinch was melted down cheese and half-n-half. Your diet basically becomes cheese and avocados with some, but not too much, salmon or chicken. I'm not arguing that it…

There is different types of keto diets, and the ones recommended for "non-sick" people, does not asks you to restrict your protein intake. You should still consume around ~1g of protein per lb of lean mass, probably even more if you are an intense bodybuilder. Only carbs are restricted (often I also recommend the `Tim Ferriss - Dom D’Agostino on Fasting, Ketosis, and the End of Cancer` podcast, and as you will see, b…

I'll have to knuckle down and listen to those podcasts, then. As for the protein limitation, the calculator in the other comments have upper limits. I keep getting conflicting information on this point.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#57

Post by bitL » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:45 PM UTC

artellectual wrote: post #2

Actually, I've tried the ketogenic diet. It's great, however it does have negative side effects. That is the lack of fiber. This can lead to hemorrhoids. Which can be extremely painful. Everything was great, I burned a lot of baby fat, but it was painful in the toilet, there was bleeding involved. You need to supplement yourself with fiber if you want to try the ketogenic diet.

I am often doing a variation of this meal:

- take 2 salmon fillets, crush whole garlic and spread over the top; put for 10 minutes into air fryer. Put a few drops of olive oil on top of garlic texture

- take frozen vegetables (it's up to you what you like), put them for 3 minutes to air fryer

- take frozen "frutti di mare" and frozen spinach, put them for 10 minutes to air fryer

This should be a balanced ketogenic meal, very tasty with lots of fiber as well and added benefit of garlic compounds fighting imbalances caused by sugar-based diets (fungus, candida etc). I lost 20 pounds in the past three months (took a lot of sports as well) giving me a nice sixpack. I used those urine strips to monitor if I indeed had ketones in my blood or not.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#58

Post by briHass » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

rpazyaquian wrote: post #19

rpazyaquian wrote: post #10

The main problem I have with ketogenic diets is that it's actually quite difficult and sometimes expensive to eat a 90-95% fat diet. I tried it for a while, and since I couldn't have carbs OR too much protein, I had several instances where my dinner in a pinch was melted down cheese and half-n-half. Your diet basically becomes cheese and avocados with some, but not too much, salmon or chicken. I'm not arguing that it…

I'll also admit that a big reason I had middling success on keto was that I had no idea how to cook for myself without relying on a source of carbs. Learning how to cook fat-heavy, low/no-carb meals is something that I've never learned, and I'm stumped. I'd be interested in resources on cooking for keto!

If you're looking for a cookbook, this one is good for some ideas: https://www.amazon.com/Ketogenic-Cookbook-Nutritious-Low-Car...

Personally, I'm not a huge by-the-book cooker. For my keto/very-low-carb diet, I just focus on certain foods that are in line with the target macros. That means lots of:

- 80/20 hamburger meat

- Fatty steak cuts (e.g. ribeye)

- Fatty fish (e.g. salmon)

- Fatty chicken cuts (e.g. legs/thigh/dark meat)

- Most pork (except lean cuts like loin) e.g. pulled pork, bacon, belly

- Avocados

- Macadamia nuts

- Eggs (particularly yokes)

- All coconut products (e.g. oil, milk, unsweetened flakes)

- Green, leafy veggies that are low in carbs (e.g. kale)

- Green veggies that are high in fiber relative to carbs (e.g. Brussels sprouts, broccoli)

Spices are all good, so a lot of my meals turn out like meaty stir fry-type dishes without the starch and with a focus on adding fats (e.g. coconut oil, olive oil) if needed.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#59

Post by Periodic » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #31

No comment on the main topic, but the "unnatural or advantageous" binary in the title is a confusion that I really dislike. "Natural" and "good" are independent axes. No relationship should be assumed. Tuberculosis is natural, but not good. Brushing your teeth is unnatural, but I'm happy to call it good. This can seem obvious, but the error crops up all the time in serious ways. E.g. women voting and joining the work…

Thank you for pointing this out! I glossed over it in the title, but it is bears special attention to avoid falling into any traps of rhetoric.

There definitely seems to be a trend in diet right now to search for the "natural" cure to all our ills. The Paleolitic Diet is probably the best example of this because it is explicitly named as being based on the past. There is an unfounded belief that primitive people were healthier, stronger and better in many ways. However, I don't know of any evidence to support those claims and most of the arguments don't hold together if you don't assume the correlation of natural and good.

I'm really curious what causes such as fixation in our modern culture on the "natural" as being healthy and good.

There's also an odd opposite assumption that anything that is "unnatural" is probably "bad". GMOs are a good example of this. Anything derived through selective breeding is good, but as soon as you directly modify the genes it's bad, despite more rigorous testing.

Re: Fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous?

#60

Post by Nav_Panel » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

rpazyaquian wrote: post #51

Nav_Panel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main problem I have with ketogenic diets is that it's actually quite difficult and sometimes expensive to eat a 90-95% fat diet From what I've seen, your diet should be ~60-70% fat, 5% or less carbs, and ~25-35% protein. Definitely not 95% fat. > I had several instances where my dinner in a pinch was melted down cheese and half-n-half. Your diet basically becomes cheese and avocados with some, but not too much,…

I prolly fucked the diet up, then. It certainly _felt_ like I was eating almost all fat...good to know that I can take advantage of cheap fatty meats like short ribs, oxtail, and marrow then. As for vegetables, I missed carrots and peas too much. Mustard greens and broccoli are apparently okay, though. I could always just make salads out of baby spinach and arugula, but I suck at making salad dressings.

> As for vegetables, I missed carrots and peas too much. Mustard greens and broccoli are apparently okay, though. I could always just make salads out of baby spinach and arugula, but I suck at making salad dressings.

The rule for veggies is to avoid starch and stick to dark leafy greens.

My go-to easy dish would be a "taco salad", where I'd cook some ground beef and serve it with cheese, salsa, sour cream over lettuce. There's also lots of dishes possible with kale and spinach.

> take advantage of cheap fatty meats

Fish included! No reason to worry about eating "too much" salmon. Cook it with butter sauce and it should fit your macro-nutrient ratios perfectly.

> I prolly fucked the diet up

As another comment said, it's no wonder you felt sick. Also, the "keto flu" is a known phenomenon while your body adapts and flushes all the water out of your system. Drink a lot of electrolytes (chicken broth is a good source) and you'll feel better.