Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#871

Post by dredmorbius » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 1:27 PM UTC

Klathmon wrote: post #836

dredmorbius wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a quite-active, and largely effective, moderation effort by @dang and ... I forget the other mod, scbc or something like that. I've been making comparative studies of a few communities (HN, Reddit, G+, Imzy, Ello), and it's interesting to see how various ones work. In particular, there's a tremendous culture against the types of even indirect personal attacks at HN which fly in spades elsewhere. I saw @d…

I have tried most of them and feel largely the same. HN seems in that sweet spot for me where it is large enough to have a good amount of discussion but still has very good quality. Most "reddit but more free" sites turn into imzy or even worse voat. G+ communities are too small for me, and finding a good community is proving to be hard. And I've given up on reddit for any larger scale technical discussion (there's j…

G+ communities, as a rule, are simply broken. I created one of my one with a carefully selected set of members, and that worked well for discussion. It's limited in specialised knowledge, though not bad.

Ello is tiny, though there are again some interesting folks. I'm simply impressed by the healthy socialisation.

I've done some rigorous "tracking the conversation" studies, which are based on terms I have interest in, across numerous sites. Blogs are still surprisingly relevant.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3hp41w/trackin...

I'm not familiar with lobsters.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#872

Post by bagacrap » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 1:29 PM UTC

aaron695 wrote: post #699

MarcScott wrote: post #222

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocea…

I'm finding this quotations without referencing the source or using quotes a real annoying trend on HN atm. It's a form of in-joke/group which is very Reddit and is used to get upvotes because everyone loves being in with the cool kids. But not everyone has read or watched every classic and knows every famous person of countries X speeches, hence why you attribute the source or even just the speaker, fictional or not…

I didn't know who produced this quote but I was able to tell from context that it was a speech (or press release) regarding the moon landing. I feel like I got more out of it then someone who's familiar with it.

Is it really that hard to Google the source?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#873

Post by 6DM » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 1:30 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #822

jernfrost wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, I wrote a medium article about exactly this phenomenon partly inspired by you: https://medium.com/@Jernfrost/the-crab-people-and-space-expl... I've been annoyed by this attitude for quite some time now. You see it all the time. Same deal with Tesla an Model S. Because not everybody can afford it, and because not all power is renewable an electric car like Tesla Model S seems like some sort of terrible crime. W…

Oh it's progress, no doubt. There's no question about that. What me and other skeptics argue against is these kinds of overly futuristic announcements that have no ground in reality, yet have people praising them like they are some kind of achievement by themselves. Elon Musk grandly announces: I'm going to make humans an interplanetary species. This is such a grand and far reaching goal that were it to be achieved i…

Isn't the first step in reaching for a goal to announce it so people will hold you to it?

I feel that saying, "So far I've seen him put a rocket in orbit and land it again" is along the lines of when you come up with an invention called the potato peeler and everyone says, "But isn't that just a dull knife?".

People constantly downplay new ideas, they're only recognizing the similarity and not the genius the slight alteration an existing invention offered them.

On a positive note, Elon Musk has somewhat of a track record for executing on his dreams/goals and making it happen. :)

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#874

Post by DiabloD3 » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

After having read all several trillion comments in this, I can summarize: everyone shits on Elon because he's doing new shit, and they either misunderstand the gravity (ha ha) of the situation or are just salty as fuck, and almost everyone here in the HN community is essentially repeating this ad infinium.

In short, King Elon for World Emperor 2016.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#875

Post by mikeash » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 2:12 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #822

jernfrost wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, I wrote a medium article about exactly this phenomenon partly inspired by you: https://medium.com/@Jernfrost/the-crab-people-and-space-expl... I've been annoyed by this attitude for quite some time now. You see it all the time. Same deal with Tesla an Model S. Because not everybody can afford it, and because not all power is renewable an electric car like Tesla Model S seems like some sort of terrible crime. W…

Oh it's progress, no doubt. There's no question about that. What me and other skeptics argue against is these kinds of overly futuristic announcements that have no ground in reality, yet have people praising them like they are some kind of achievement by themselves. Elon Musk grandly announces: I'm going to make humans an interplanetary species. This is such a grand and far reaching goal that were it to be achieved i…

"No ground in reality"? Sure, the plan is extremely ambitious. But it relies on no fundamentally new technology and comes from someone with a proven track record in the field. They're talking at almost seven years before the first Mars launch with this system. I'll remind you that seven years before Apollo 11, this was the state of the art for American spaceflight:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_LV-3B

Further, Musk explicitly admitted that his ability to create realistic schedules is poor, and the timeline should be considered more aspirational than concrete.

To me, "no ground in reality" would apply if they had announced, say, plans for a warp drive, or a teleporter. This plan looks extremely grounded in reality to me, which is why it's so exciting.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#876

Post by simonh » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #867

simonh wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking about things like operation of the Sabatier reactor, refueling operations, inspection and cleaning of the engines prior to re-launch from Mars? There's an awful lot more to a round-trip mission that just automated launch and landing.

All of those things for a modern airliner used to require humans all the time, then as we got better at it, humans are used less and less in the loop. Refueling is an easy autonomous one. Eventually you'd only need to inspect and clean the engine every x flights, etc. and maybe you just do that each time it's back on Earth.

Sounds good, thanks.

I wonder if a scale model test launched on Falcon Heavy would be viable or useful?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#877

Post by mikeash » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

hacker42 wrote: post #865

randomsearch wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem here is one of misanthropy. I'm not saying it applies to all those commenting negatively, but one commonly held philosophy amongst some of my geek friends is this logic: "the world is terrible and people are terrible" -> "there's no point trying to improve things" -> "I don't need to improve things" It's essentially an argument that allows people to live a defeatist (selfish?) life without feeling…

> failing to appreciate the subtleties in how progress is made What are these subtleties? Why is it better to invest energy into space instead of sustainability? It's just heartbreaking that we can't remotely get as excited about sustainability as we can about romantic memes of curiosity and history books. Is the 'subtlety' that we just got to accept this as a fact about human nature and hope for sustainability as a…

There seems to be plenty of excitement when big announcements are made for things like solar power, nuclear energy, energy storage, non-hydrocarbon transportation, and other such things. Lots of work is going into those things already, a big chunk of it being done by the same guy pushing Mars here.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#878

Post by Symmetry » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 2:29 PM UTC

kumarski wrote: post #739

I wrote a brief blog post on some of the major challenges to get this going. Musk's hesitancy to a deadline is great. :) It makes sense, hard to predict the future. http://engineersf.com/12-reasons-spacex-wont-fly-a-manned-mi... There's a ton of cool problems lurking around the corner. I hope humanity backs the public part of this public-private partnership. 1. Cargo Capacity — Scaling is Hard. 2. Proper Maintenance…

It looks like SpaceX is choosing a high delta-v trajectory specifically to reduce the danger of 5, 11, and 12. Particularly muscle, bone, and eyesight loss would be a big problem on a Hohmann tranfer orbit to Mars but not on the trajectory SpaceX is proposing. 8 is silly since nowhere people live is going to be microbe free but the long term health effects of Mars gravity are still utterly unknown and that's something we need to get a hold on.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#879

Post by castis » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 2:31 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #390

savagej wrote: post #335

troll

What makes you think I'm trolling? I like the idea of space travel as much as the next person; I just remain unconvinced that colonizing Mars or even deep space really solves any existential problems for humanity beyond... providing more space. There's nothing radical about not believing that space travel is an answer to anything in and of itself. Apparently there's something deeply wrong for not agreeing with Elon M…

Colonizing Mars (and/or humanity leaving the planet in general) does solve 1 existential problem. We have no reason to believe this planet is exempt from further mass extinctions. We are hard-wired to preserve our own existence and this is a step in assuring that.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#880

Post by mikeash » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 2:35 PM UTC

lafar6502 wrote: post #817

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

Oh come on, if you dont want people to criticize why do you expect everyone to show enthusiasm? Some skepticism will not pull Musk down if he has the means to deliver what he's selling, and no amount of enthusiasm will make a pig fly. This just suggests Elon chose to run forward to avoid any questions asked about the current and the past. He didn't revolutionize anything yet, made a few small dents in status quo but…

Criticism and skepticism are fine. What's not fine is criticism based purely on emotion or lack of information.

"The timeline is unrealistic and major problems X, Y, and Z must be overcome." I welcome this kind of comment.

"Going to Mars is stupid. You'll just die in a box. We should focus on climate change instead." This is what I'm complaining about.

SpaceX has a bunch of rocket companies working on reusability when just a few years ago that was dismissed as stupid. Tesla has a bunch of major car companies working on serious electric vehicles when just a few years ago there was nothing of interest. Both of those are already revolutionary.