Not Just Any Old Geek • Hacker News Board

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#51

Post by ex_amazon_sde » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:30 AM UTC

headmelted wrote: post #34

I actually love this. I've never worked in the valley, and honestly I feel no pressing urge to based on what I hear with regards to the bias in favour of twenty-somethings who can work 15+ hour days and live off of ramen. I'm pushing into my mid-thirties this year, I'm married with two young children, and I simply can't work the kind of hours that I could ten years ago. The thing is, I didn't do it then either, even…

> I simply never understood why someone would give so much of themselves for free in the pursuit of someone else's goals without a substantial slice of the pie.

They believe what they are told - that hard work will be rewarded by salary increases, ability to work on interesting stuff and much respect.

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#52

Post by drvdevd » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:38 AM UTC

superJimmy64 wrote: post #44

daemonk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah definitely. I actually work in academia (I guess I wasn't very qualified to speak about SV). But it's the same shtick everywhere. Passion has become an euphemism for soft corporate brain-washing. I am reminded of this blog article by an ad executive before his death where he raised similar points about his industry: http://www.lindsredding.com/2012/03/11/a-overdue-lesson-in-p...

>(You don’t have to drive creative folk like most workers. They drive themselves. Just wind ’em up and let ’em go.) Great link: Very, VERY insightful.

Agreed. What an excellent read! Highly recommended.

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#53

Post by skrebbel » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:41 AM UTC

cholantesh wrote: post #43

superJimmy64 wrote: post #39

(Not that it really matters, but I'm 27...) A few things came to me after reading the post: Firstly, how this situation shared by the OP and many others is pure insanity. That the very people who grew up with this technology during the baby years are now struggling to have a place now that it really has taken off. Secondly, for those in their mid-30's and onward, to realize how immensely skilled they likely are at wr…

>(still must admit that 37 doesn't feel old to me) Same; I find it a bit terrifying that 35+ is considered 'old' in our industry...

It's not, but he has to call himself old to give his business idea credibility. (which I think is fair, by the way)

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#54

Post by hobaak » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:43 AM UTC

I am female, over 40 and an engineer with some management experience under the belt. When I go to event in SF (Valley is still better), I know that I am an outlier. One of the odds that deters conformity of the data model. I am happy to break the mold and willing to do it.

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#55

Post by chrisbennet » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:47 AM UTC

narag wrote: post #26

Swizec wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A [decently managed] team of 5 will always outproduce you. No matter how little they work or how much better you are individually. But 1-on-1? Experience wins evey time. I'm not old old yet, but I do have the most experience[1] in my team. Spend the least time at work, strictly 8h/day, and am easily the top contributor by any engineering metric you can think of. Wish I could explain why or how , but the best I've bee…

A [decently managed] team of 5 will always outproduce you. I wouldn't be so sure. It depends on the problem you're solving. Of course for routine work it would be like that.

And this ^^^ is what experience sounds like.

A team is certainly the right tool for some situations but often the toughest routes require a single very very good climber.

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#56

Post by crdoconnor » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:48 AM UTC

jwr wrote: post #30

daemonk wrote: post #15

I am getting to old geek status myself. From a more cynical perspective, I am not sure if we can compete with early twenty-somethings who are unjaded and buy into the silicon valley mystique. They are willing to work 12 hour days and still do the faux-japanese salarymen afterwork socializing that supposedly builds "culture". Older geeks don't buy into this ping-pong table propaganda. Tech companies probably won't be…

I wouldn't worry. We can actually Get Stuff Done, which at the end of the day is what really counts. Inexperienced young programmers working 2x the hours do not necessarily produce Output That Works (I know, I've been one myself). Sure, not every company will realize that, but then again, you don't necessarily want to work for every ping-pong table company, either. Cultural fit and all that.

>I wouldn't worry. We can actually Get Stuff Done, which at the end of the day is what really counts.

This is a myth. It doesn't count for that much. Programmer productivity cannot be effectively measured even by other programmers and certainly can't be measured by non-technical managers.

The fact that you are doing something can be easily verified. The fact that you are doing it effectively at an appropriate speed and quality cannot.

There's a lot more trust, salesmanship, snake oil and bullshit surrounding the development of software than most of us would like to admit.

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#57

Post by DrNuke » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:50 AM UTC

A competent old geek is able to set up properly and very quickly but the day-to-day huffing & puffing implies a mix of stamina and boredom, that's why ping pong as a culture fit.

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#58

Post by dfsegoat » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:51 AM UTC

daemonk wrote: post #15

I am getting to old geek status myself. From a more cynical perspective, I am not sure if we can compete with early twenty-somethings who are unjaded and buy into the silicon valley mystique. They are willing to work 12 hour days and still do the faux-japanese salarymen afterwork socializing that supposedly builds "culture". Older geeks don't buy into this ping-pong table propaganda. Tech companies probably won't be…

To share me / and things that keep me up at night:

I am an old geek - (34 now - i guess)... I still need to work the 12 hour days in order to keep up with my day job AND to keep up with new technologies and the literature via Pluralsight, Github / HN / Coursera etc.

This is what I really worry about in terms of my health and longevity: Being able to "stay on top" of the latest trends and shiney new things - and deciding what will matter in 3 years, and what is just another "fad".

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#59

Post by fecak » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:51 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #36

mynameislegion wrote: post #35

How is 35 considered old?

My question exactly. I'm 35 and do not consider myself to be old, far from it.

Part of this depends on where you are, if we're strictly talking about "old" in the engineer sense. 35 wouldn't be considered old in most parts of the country.

Re: Not Just Any Old Geek

#60

Post by codingmyway » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 11:52 AM UTC

superJimmy64 wrote: post #39

(Not that it really matters, but I'm 27...) A few things came to me after reading the post: Firstly, how this situation shared by the OP and many others is pure insanity. That the very people who grew up with this technology during the baby years are now struggling to have a place now that it really has taken off. Secondly, for those in their mid-30's and onward, to realize how immensely skilled they likely are at wr…

I'm starting to think that the way things worked is that older people realize that the best way to get ahead is to exploit younger inexperienced workers who don't yet know their own value and power, whether it's as employees or through being a landlord rentier.

That doesn't work so well anymore when the young can build their own web business without any of the contacts and wisdom required before. My generation (x) are going to have to keep working a lot longer.