Hey, is it possible to add the ability for other countries to post?
We are a young and small British company who are getting very frustrated at having too many inexperienced applicants!
Not Just Any Old Geek
21–30 of 305 posts
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#22Hey, is it possible to add the ability for other countries to post? We are a young and small British company who are getting very frustrated at having too many inexperienced applicants!
Posting things like that and not having a URL/email in your profile is a missed opportunity.
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#23This is an AWESOME idea and I totally appreciate both Tim's original article on the subject and your efforts on this job site. As a CTO I have long appreciated real world knowledge and experience over inexperienced, cheap, eagerness. Our employee's are all 30+, most have families and I believe that leads to well balanced and focused employee's. That is not to say I would not hire a younger employee but with age comes…
> I actually think that the ageism in tech is a result of it being a young industry. As more and more dev's go grey the problem will resolve itself.
Tell that to devs who worked in the dotcom boom, or the PC boom before that.
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#24If Jaromir Jagr, at 44 years of age, can play at the highest level of professional hockey in the world, leading his young team in points (and 2nd in goals) last season [1] just imagine what a programmer can do with the same level of focus and determination at that age and beyond. [1] https://www.nhl.com/panthers/stats/regular-season/skaters/p
Isn't the main argument against employing older developers that they won't have that level of focus and determination? Pointing to an statistical anomaly and suggesting that older people can be that focused is easily countered with an argument that, while that's true, it's far more likely that a younger person will have the traits you're looking for, so you should employ them instead.
A rare example of a hyper-focused older person[1] isn't a reason to hire older people. Hiring is about filling a position with someone capable of doing what's necessary. It's not about finding someone exceptional. You want to get someone in and get them up to speed as fast as you can in order to move on to doing things that drive your business forwards. To that end, older, experienced people are very often better than younger people because they've already proven they can do the job.
[1] 44 isn't old.
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#25If Jaromir Jagr, at 44 years of age, can play at the highest level of professional hockey in the world, leading his young team in points (and 2nd in goals) last season [1] just imagine what a programmer can do with the same level of focus and determination at that age and beyond. [1] https://www.nhl.com/panthers/stats/regular-season/skaters/p
Isn't the main argument against employing older developers that they won't have that level of focus and determination? Pointing to an statistical anomaly and suggesting that older people can be that focused is easily countered with an argument that, while that's true, it's far more likely that a younger person will have the traits you're looking for, so you should employ them instead. A rare example of a hyper-focuse…
"won't have that level of focus and determination"
More like they won't have that level of focus and determination for a poorly run project - so it's not that they can't it's more that they won't see the benefits to them of that level of dedication.
NB I am 51 and quite happy in a technical role.
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#26I am getting to old geek status myself. From a more cynical perspective, I am not sure if we can compete with early twenty-somethings who are unjaded and buy into the silicon valley mystique. They are willing to work 12 hour days and still do the faux-japanese salarymen afterwork socializing that supposedly builds "culture". Older geeks don't buy into this ping-pong table propaganda. Tech companies probably won't be…
A [decently managed] team of 5 will always outproduce you. No matter how little they work or how much better you are individually. But 1-on-1? Experience wins evey time. I'm not old old yet, but I do have the most experience[1] in my team. Spend the least time at work, strictly 8h/day, and am easily the top contributor by any engineering metric you can think of. Wish I could explain why or how , but the best I've bee…
A [decently managed] team of 5 will always outproduce you.
I wouldn't be so sure. It depends on the problem you're solving. Of course for routine work it would be like that.
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#27I am getting to old geek status myself. From a more cynical perspective, I am not sure if we can compete with early twenty-somethings who are unjaded and buy into the silicon valley mystique. They are willing to work 12 hour days and still do the faux-japanese salarymen afterwork socializing that supposedly builds "culture". Older geeks don't buy into this ping-pong table propaganda. Tech companies probably won't be…
I've been into programming most of my life, but actually didn't get started professionally until my mid-to-late 20s. This gave me a unique view of said propaganda. It certainly lives everywhere including outside SV. I've been able to quickly recognize it being applied and thus desire other, better forms of compensation.
I think this is a skill we should strive to teach younger programmers, because if properly applied across the entire industry, we can raise standards across the market.
Just because they're willing to working 1.5-2X the hours doesn't mean they should be. Your time is valuable no matter how old you are
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#28This is neat, I would request that it could be international though.
Restricting jobs to just US states is limiting, especially as many of the companies listed do hire internationally too.
Just add "Not applicable / International" to the states drop down, and a Country picker.
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#29I am getting to old geek status myself. From a more cynical perspective, I am not sure if we can compete with early twenty-somethings who are unjaded and buy into the silicon valley mystique. They are willing to work 12 hour days and still do the faux-japanese salarymen afterwork socializing that supposedly builds "culture". Older geeks don't buy into this ping-pong table propaganda. Tech companies probably won't be…
I've been into programming most of my life, but actually didn't get started professionally until my mid-to-late 20s. This gave me a unique view of said propaganda. It certainly lives everywhere including outside SV. I've been able to quickly recognize it being applied and thus desire other, better forms of compensation. I think this is a skill we should strive to teach younger programmers, because if properly applied…
Yeah definitely. I actually work in academia (I guess I wasn't very qualified to speak about SV). But it's the same shtick everywhere. Passion has become an euphemism for soft corporate brain-washing.
I am reminded of this blog article by an ad executive before his death where he raised similar points about his industry:
http://www.lindsredding.com/2012/03/11/a-overdue-lesson-in-p...
Re: Not Just Any Old Geek
#30I am getting to old geek status myself. From a more cynical perspective, I am not sure if we can compete with early twenty-somethings who are unjaded and buy into the silicon valley mystique. They are willing to work 12 hour days and still do the faux-japanese salarymen afterwork socializing that supposedly builds "culture". Older geeks don't buy into this ping-pong table propaganda. Tech companies probably won't be…
I wouldn't worry. We can actually Get Stuff Done, which at the end of the day is what really counts. Inexperienced young programmers working 2x the hours do not necessarily produce Output That Works (I know, I've been one myself). Sure, not every company will realize that, but then again, you don't necessarily want to work for every ping-pong table company, either. Cultural fit and all that.