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Stali: A new static Linux distribution

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Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#61

Post by pjmlp »

modifieddog wrote: post #52
arjun1296 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to believe that disk space is less as it can leverage other libraries in the deps list to load at run time and other can use it too. For static executable the same dependent library will have to linked to all binaries. Maintenance is a pain in the neck.

> I refuse to believe that disk space is less as it can leverage other libraries in the deps list to load at run time and other can use it too. If I remember correctly, the argument goes someting like this: modern compilers, i.e. something as recent as the Plan 9 toolchain or a GCC version from this millenium, usually compile in only the necessary code with static linking, and not whole libraries. With dynamic linkin…

Modern compilers?!

Static linking was already like that in MS-DOS compilers.

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#62

Post by Arnt »

viraptor wrote: post #21

I'm confused about some claims / justifications. For example: > A user can easily run dynamic library code using LD_PRELOAD in conjunction with some trivial program like ping. No... Not sure if it ever worked, but it's definitely not possible for many years now. Also the link to the ASLR effectiveness paper was valid in 2004. That means they're still testing 32bit systems and effectively say scanning 64bit systems th…

IIRC that worked in the summer of 1992, and was blocked sometime that year or the next.

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#64

Post by throwaway2048 »

pjmlp wrote: post #59
morganvachon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a loaded question, and I'm only qualified to answer from my perspective and experience. My biggest gripe with it has always been that it is alpha-quality software, even today, that has a central role in an otherwise mature OS ecosystem. It has been widely adopted (some would say forced or tricked into adoption by a few distros) and therefore all the major Linux distributions are now running at an alpha level w…

The irony of the eroding the UNIX philosophy from Linux is that most real UNIX systems, meaning AIX, HP-UX, Solaris, NeXTSTep (cough macOS), Tru64,... do have something similar to systemd. Sometimes shouting "UNIX philosophy" in GNU/Linux forums reminds me of emigrants that keep traditions of their home countries alive that are long out of fashion back home.

commercial unixes haven't been relevant for decades. Unix is linux these days.

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#65

Post by kleiba »

giovannibajo1 wrote: post #34
paulddraper wrote: post #28

I really like the idea of static linking. Then I think about how I'd patch the next inevitable openssl bug. Then I don't like it as much.

You'd run "pkg-manager upgrade", just like you do with dynamic linking.

You mean "git update":

  * Upgrade/install using git, no package manager needed
How exactly this is going to work, I don't know.

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#66

Post by mort96 »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #64
pjmlp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony of the eroding the UNIX philosophy from Linux is that most real UNIX systems, meaning AIX, HP-UX, Solaris, NeXTSTep (cough macOS), Tru64,... do have something similar to systemd. Sometimes shouting "UNIX philosophy" in GNU/Linux forums reminds me of emigrants that keep traditions of their home countries alive that are long out of fashion back home.

commercial unixes haven't been relevant for decades. Unix is linux these days.

How about the second largest desktop OS in the world, OS X (or now macOS)? That's BSD.

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#67

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

morganvachon wrote: post #14
simophin wrote: post #3

I still don't understand why systemd sucks

That's a loaded question, and I'm only qualified to answer from my perspective and experience. My biggest gripe with it has always been that it is alpha-quality software, even today, that has a central role in an otherwise mature OS ecosystem. It has been widely adopted (some would say forced or tricked into adoption by a few distros) and therefore all the major Linux distributions are now running at an alpha level w…

> gets progressively slower with each systemd update

Windows 10 will not be left behind! I mean, ahead!

Microsoft recently pushed out the Anniversary Update, which made at least my Win10 laptop noticeably - as in extra 10 or 15 seconds - slower waking up, and generally more sluggish here and there.

(How convenient, 400 million PCs need an upgrade now. Mwahahaha.)

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#68

Post by clarry »

justinsaccount wrote: post #10
simophin wrote: post #3

I still don't understand why systemd sucks

Because people like to complain more than they like to actually build a usable alternative. Edit: here's a great example from one of the links in the other comment: suckless complaining about "sysv removed" in systemd. Link takes you to this changelog entry: "The support for SysV and LSB init scripts has been removed from the systemd daemon itself. Instead, it is now implemented as a generator that creates native sys…

> Because people like to complain more than they like to actually build a usable alternative.

More like people have had perfectly usable alternatives but now the hivemind is more or less forcing something else onto them. I don't need to build a new init system, I have one that works, thank you. Please don't give me systemd.

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#69

Post by riffraff »

mort96 wrote: post #66
throwaway2048 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

commercial unixes haven't been relevant for decades. Unix is linux these days.

How about the second largest desktop OS in the world, OS X (or now macOS)? That's BSD.

OSX is actually a certified UNIX http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

Re: Stali: A new static Linux distribution

#70

Post by Sanddancer »

bitwize wrote: post #11
simophin wrote: post #3

I still don't understand why systemd sucks

Hating systemd is like hating Hillary Clinton at this point. It's well past time to suck it up and make peace with your next init system/President because the only viable alternative(s) are far worse.

Is switching to a BSD the move to Canada option? I know several people who have migrated to various BSDs because of the ugliness of systemd.
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