Python is the language that, once you know it, you'll never go back. It's gotten to the point where I use it to run an entire backend as well as simple terminal scripts. It's faster to write a Python script to "switch the first and third columns in a file", rather than Googling for an appropriate awk command (or spending the time to come up with one myself).
Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
61–70 of 161 posts
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're saying bower is cancer? Webpack is cancer? Babel is cancer ? JavaScript module system made popular by nodejs is cancer? I largely prefer Python as a language but Nodejs is the best thing that happened to web development in years/ever
No, they are (well developed) bandaids to help deal with the cancer of javascript!
Your comment was about nodejs not JavaScript. Also give es6 js a try. It looks and feels like coding in Python (almost).
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#63Python is the language that, once you know it, you'll never go back. It's gotten to the point where I use it to run an entire backend as well as simple terminal scripts. It's faster to write a Python script to "switch the first and third columns in a file", rather than Googling for an appropriate awk command (or spending the time to come up with one myself).
While I agree with the sentiment, I do still love the concise format of awk commands. Although arguably, they can get rather confusing when trying to do complex stuff.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like javascript is picked up by giants (microsoft build its IDE) facebook (React?) Google (angular) so I guess you cant compare it with VB unlesss I missed something in the 90s
Oh boy did you miss something in the 90s! It was call active pages (or some bullshit, I have tried to block it from my memory) and it made Internet Explorer the king of browsers and still locks in a lot of government agencies and business from upgrading their infrastructure, because they don't want to lose or have to pay to redevelop "critical" applications to their daily work.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're saying bower is cancer? Webpack is cancer? Babel is cancer ? JavaScript module system made popular by nodejs is cancer? I largely prefer Python as a language but Nodejs is the best thing that happened to web development in years/ever
No, they are (well developed) bandaids to help deal with the cancer of javascript!
Hurray, here we go again! Uhh no, JavaScript is just fine, baring:
* implicit conversions, which you can get rid of at compile time using TypeScript or Flow.
* lack of explicit ints and ints with more than 31 bits (JITs can give you SMIs, or 31 bit integers for things they can prove are always integer values)
And thats about it.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#66Looks like the are going for both 2 and 3 support?
https://github.com/Azure/azure-cli/blob/master/scripts/dev_s...
EDIT:
Nah, only 3. So much for Microsoft and it's legendary backwards compatibility.
https://github.com/Azure/azure-cli/blob/master/scripts/gener...
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" as well ad devs but, does, in fact, enjoy some of its strongest support from them- scientists, engineers, statisticians, etc., who do not consider themselves to be good developers. And, man, they can develop some crappy code/systems in Python too. I like Python too (as well as node,) but your characterization of node is over-broad and, imo, inaccur…
> You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" ... as an alternative to C++ and Perl. And in that respect, it is a snap to pick up. It is pretty easy, not as easy as, say, Javascript, but still easy to pick up, I agree. Node.js is cancer. We all use it, because of the momentum it has with designers instantly being able to declare themselves "full-stack devs", but make no mistake -- Node.js an…
I'm surprised to see JS described as easier than Python. I'd say it's considerably harder and more complex. The first reason being that it forces you to think about asynchronosity constantly, and that's something a beginner's going to struggle with -- not just the idea that your code won't run in order, but that there are so many ways to deal with it (callbacks, promises, async/await, event emitters) all with their own tradeoffs. The second being that the standard library is anemic, so a ton of what you'd just hit the Python Stdlib for you have to either write yourself or sift through npm to find. Then there's the wildly varying code styles: this person/book encourages the traditional imperative style using loops and mutations, this other person encourages a functional style using folds and maps to do the same things. Prototype-based inheritance is less intuitive than class-based inheritance. There are multiple ways to do everything, even things as simple as variable assignment (var, let, const, implicit global, function foo() vs let foo = function() vs const foo = () =>), weird invisible things that trip you up like hoisting and how creating a global variable looks exactly the same as reassigning an existing local variable. New users will inevitably encounter the multiple competing module systems and either confuse syntax or fret about which to use.
I agree that it's cancerous, and that making the server side more accessible to front-end developers isn't worth all the problems Node introduces long-term. My dream is still a statically-typed version of Erlang.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who does a ton of Node/JS coding as well as some Python, I am personally offended! Ok, not really, but I think you're wrong :) I think VB is more similar to Python in the sense that both languages were designed with some sense of simplicity and straight-forwardness in mind. Both PHP and Javascript are much more complex from a language design standpoint, which makes them more difficult to learn "well" for b…
> Both PHP and Javascript are much more complex from a language design standpoint Complex in the sense that they were originally thrown together and the results of the program might best be described as "stochastic output", yeah I can agree with that. > A good engineer can write high quality code in "almost" any programming language. It's the coder, not the language, that determines engineering quality. Sure, but it…
> Complex in the sense that they were originally thrown together and the results of the program might best be described as "stochastic output", yeah I can agree with that.
Absolutely, they are complex because of poor initial designs, and actually even more complex now due to all the efforts to maintain backwards compatibility...
> Sure, but it sure seems funny that "high quality code" is nearly non-existent in PHP and javascript world ...
jQuery is an incredibly well engineered library by John Resig. I think that jQuery was one of the big technological leaps forward that led to the proliferation of web applications.
For a long time, people thought that cross browser JS inconsistencies and confusing API standards meant that you couldn't build interactive UI applications in the browser. And now they are ubiquitous.
So I guess it depends on your definition of "high quality code". I don't think quality code is about some arbitrary coding aesthetic. It's about results, and it's about what your code does, and how it creates value.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> i'm sure i'm going to burn karma for comparing node with vb but... I'll take the hit for you and flat-out say that node.js is the new VB. In fact, for those of you that have been around a while, I think we can all agree that node.js is the new PHP was the new Visual Basic, etc. Not in the sense that they do the same things, but that they were purposely built for non-programmers (baby-devs) to be able to program (wh…
As someone who does a ton of Node/JS coding as well as some Python, I am personally offended! Ok, not really, but I think you're wrong :) I think VB is more similar to Python in the sense that both languages were designed with some sense of simplicity and straight-forwardness in mind. Both PHP and Javascript are much more complex from a language design standpoint, which makes them more difficult to learn "well" for b…
>> A good engineer can write high quality code in "almost" any programming language. It's the coder, not the language, that determines engineering quality.
That's just a platitude, and it's wrong.
Languages with better features allow engineers at varying levels of experience to write better code than they otherwise might.
JS almost forces you to write garbage.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#70Python is the language that, once you know it, you'll never go back. It's gotten to the point where I use it to run an entire backend as well as simple terminal scripts. It's faster to write a Python script to "switch the first and third columns in a file", rather than Googling for an appropriate awk command (or spending the time to come up with one myself).
I've been primarily a C# programmer for the majority of my career, with probably equal parts dabbling in Ruby, PHP, Javascript, Sql (large sprawling analytics framework sql), and a bit of R.
When I switched to Ruby dev-work though, my tools changed. I found myself writing a lot more scripts for things which I previously would have made a C# console app for, mostly because osx/linux make it a lot easier. Soon I started writing a little Python, and found I was just plain productive (things that might have taken me many hours would take minutes), and now it's becoming a primary language for me. I'm not sure I'd use it for the majority of my work, but it's probably my #2 language tool.