Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

azure.microsoft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 161 posts

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#51

Post by mhuffman »

arisAlexis wrote: post #38
mhuffman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm sure i'm going to burn karma for comparing node with vb but... I'll take the hit for you and flat-out say that node.js is the new VB. In fact, for those of you that have been around a while, I think we can all agree that node.js is the new PHP was the new Visual Basic, etc. Not in the sense that they do the same things, but that they were purposely built for non-programmers (baby-devs) to be able to program (wh…

Seems like javascript is picked up by giants (microsoft build its IDE) facebook (React?) Google (angular) so I guess you cant compare it with VB unlesss I missed something in the 90s

Oh boy did you miss something in the 90s! It was call active pages (or some bullshit, I have tried to block it from my memory) and it made Internet Explorer the king of browsers and still locks in a lot of government agencies and business from upgrading their infrastructure, because they don't want to lose or have to pay to redevelop "critical" applications to their daily work.

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#52

Post by lemiffe »

rootusrootus wrote: post #40
arisAlexis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like javascript is picked up by giants (microsoft build its IDE) facebook (React?) Google (angular) so I guess you cant compare it with VB unlesss I missed something in the 90s

I think you might be missing the distinction in the above post. Node.JS != Javascript.

What? Node.JS is Javascript. JS at the end of the name stands for Javascript!

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#53

Post by JasonRShaver »

WorldMaker wrote: post #15
Longhanks wrote: post #4

Did they explain why they switched? Not that I'm complaining. Love Python, dislike JS being everywhere.

There's a mention of it in the "Motivation" page on the GitHub wiki. Basically the big thing seems to be the feedback from Linux users that most distributions bundle Python but not Node. Also that AWS and Google CLI tools are still more Python than Node.

I am the author of the Motivation page; the choice of language was really focused on what's best for partners and customers; I believe either language could have "done the job".

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#54

Post by mhuffman »

bradscarleton wrote: post #48
mhuffman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm sure i'm going to burn karma for comparing node with vb but... I'll take the hit for you and flat-out say that node.js is the new VB. In fact, for those of you that have been around a while, I think we can all agree that node.js is the new PHP was the new Visual Basic, etc. Not in the sense that they do the same things, but that they were purposely built for non-programmers (baby-devs) to be able to program (wh…

As someone who does a ton of Node/JS coding as well as some Python, I am personally offended! Ok, not really, but I think you're wrong :) I think VB is more similar to Python in the sense that both languages were designed with some sense of simplicity and straight-forwardness in mind. Both PHP and Javascript are much more complex from a language design standpoint, which makes them more difficult to learn "well" for b…

> Both PHP and Javascript are much more complex from a language design standpoint

Complex in the sense that they were originally thrown together and the results of the program might best be described as "stochastic output", yeah I can agree with that.

> A good engineer can write high quality code in "almost" any programming language. It's the coder, not the language, that determines engineering quality.

Sure, but it sure seems funny that "high quality code" is nearly non-existent in PHP and javascript world ...

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#55

Post by aabajian »

mhuffman wrote: post #45
rationalthug wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" as well ad devs but, does, in fact, enjoy some of its strongest support from them- scientists, engineers, statisticians, etc., who do not consider themselves to be good developers. And, man, they can develop some crappy code/systems in Python too. I like Python too (as well as node,) but your characterization of node is over-broad and, imo, inaccur…

> You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" ... as an alternative to C++ and Perl. And in that respect, it is a snap to pick up. It is pretty easy, not as easy as, say, Javascript, but still easy to pick up, I agree. Node.js is cancer. We all use it, because of the momentum it has with designers instantly being able to declare themselves "full-stack devs", but make no mistake -- Node.js an…

Python is way easier to understand than JavaScript IMHO.

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#56

Post by JasonRShaver »

tetron wrote: post #25

I haven't used the new Azure cli, but a major issue with the node.js based cli was that it was heavily oriented towards interactive use and not well suited for use by scripts. Hard to parse output, prompt for parameters instead of accepting them on the command line, etc.

Improving the automation experience was a core goal of our new CLI effort.

If you (or anyone else) has any feedback on places we can improve, we are happy to hear it (azfeedback [at] microsoft.com]).

Jason - Microsoft Azure CLI

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#57

Post by zyngaro »

mhuffman wrote: post #45
rationalthug wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" as well ad devs but, does, in fact, enjoy some of its strongest support from them- scientists, engineers, statisticians, etc., who do not consider themselves to be good developers. And, man, they can develop some crappy code/systems in Python too. I like Python too (as well as node,) but your characterization of node is over-broad and, imo, inaccur…

> You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" ... as an alternative to C++ and Perl. And in that respect, it is a snap to pick up. It is pretty easy, not as easy as, say, Javascript, but still easy to pick up, I agree. Node.js is cancer. We all use it, because of the momentum it has with designers instantly being able to declare themselves "full-stack devs", but make no mistake -- Node.js an…

So you're saying bower is cancer? Webpack is cancer? Babel is cancer ? JavaScript module system made popular by nodejs is cancer? I largely prefer Python as a language but Nodejs is the best thing that happened to web development in years/ever

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#58

Post by aabajian »

rationalthug wrote: post #39
mhuffman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm sure i'm going to burn karma for comparing node with vb but... I'll take the hit for you and flat-out say that node.js is the new VB. In fact, for those of you that have been around a while, I think we can all agree that node.js is the new PHP was the new Visual Basic, etc. Not in the sense that they do the same things, but that they were purposely built for non-programmers (baby-devs) to be able to program (wh…

You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" as well ad devs but, does, in fact, enjoy some of its strongest support from them- scientists, engineers, statisticians, etc., who do not consider themselves to be good developers. And, man, they can develop some crappy code/systems in Python too. I like Python too (as well as node,) but your characterization of node is over-broad and, imo, inaccur…

Python is outstanding for nearly every purpose I've thrown at it, and I was a strong Java developer. Now if anyone asks me if they should learn R/Matlab/Java/C, I say "Sure, but learn Python first."

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#59

Post by mhuffman »

zyngaro wrote: post #57
mhuffman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" ... as an alternative to C++ and Perl. And in that respect, it is a snap to pick up. It is pretty easy, not as easy as, say, Javascript, but still easy to pick up, I agree. Node.js is cancer. We all use it, because of the momentum it has with designers instantly being able to declare themselves "full-stack devs", but make no mistake -- Node.js an…

So you're saying bower is cancer? Webpack is cancer? Babel is cancer ? JavaScript module system made popular by nodejs is cancer? I largely prefer Python as a language but Nodejs is the best thing that happened to web development in years/ever

No, they are (well developed) bandaids to help deal with the cancer of javascript!

Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview

#60

Post by SwellJoe »

mhuffman wrote: post #45
rationalthug wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" as well ad devs but, does, in fact, enjoy some of its strongest support from them- scientists, engineers, statisticians, etc., who do not consider themselves to be good developers. And, man, they can develop some crappy code/systems in Python too. I like Python too (as well as node,) but your characterization of node is over-broad and, imo, inaccur…

> You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" ... as an alternative to C++ and Perl. And in that respect, it is a snap to pick up. It is pretty easy, not as easy as, say, Javascript, but still easy to pick up, I agree. Node.js is cancer. We all use it, because of the momentum it has with designers instantly being able to declare themselves "full-stack devs", but make no mistake -- Node.js an…

"as an alternative to C++ and Perl"

Do you have a citation for that? My understanding of the timeline and Guido's writings on the subject make it seem very unlikely that C++ or Perl had any significant impact on the decision to create Python or the design of Python. Python would very likely still exist in a world without C++ or Perl, as far as I can tell.

Python isn't even in the same lineage as either of those languages, though it shares a lot of features and patterns with Perl (as there has been some cross-pollination between the communities over the years). And, Python (started in 1989) is only a couple years newer than Perl (1987) and Perl was tiny enough to likely not really even be on Guido's radar at the time.

There may be a bunch of developers who think in terms of their own evolution as coders, and when they discovered various things, and your history may have Python coming well after Perl (I know I only started using Python professionally six or seven years after I first used Perl). But, I think you're overlaying your own perception onto events and it's distorting the actual history.

Post reply on HN