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Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

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Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#211

Post by thaw13579 »

spdustin wrote: post #140
dsabanin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't solve simplest problems on Earth (like re-capturing CO2 for example), but believe we'll be able to terraform a planet to which we haven't even been able to send a human yet?

We don't need the permission and cooperation of every major world power and polluting industry to go to Mars. I'd go so far as to say it's vastly more attainable than fixing our atmosphere.

Once there's any indication that terraforming Mars is possible, why wouldn't they do everything they can to cash in as well?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#212

Post by vkou »

spdustin wrote: post #140
dsabanin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't solve simplest problems on Earth (like re-capturing CO2 for example), but believe we'll be able to terraform a planet to which we haven't even been able to send a human yet?

We don't need the permission and cooperation of every major world power and polluting industry to go to Mars. I'd go so far as to say it's vastly more attainable than fixing our atmosphere.

We don't need the permission and cooperation of every major world power to destroy the Earth's environment. In fact, it seems to be our default mode of operation.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#213

Post by grondilu »

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

> If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like.

Well, maybe they like to shout "the King is naked". Or maybe they want the interest in space exploration to go towards what they think would be more realistic and/or reasonable plans.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#214

Post by jameshart »

djsumdog wrote: post #77
bsdetector wrote: post #47

We won't really be an interplanetary species until we can get back from Mars. Imagine being colonists on Mars without the ability to be totally self-sustaining without technology and supplies from Earth and nuclear war breaks out. It's going to be a long time before any Mars colony can survive on its own.

The first colonists will most likely not come back. Make no mistake, people are going to die in the first several runs. This will be one of the most dangerous endeavors mankind can attempt. As far as war breaking out, we're not going to make it to Mars in our current state. I don't think Mars is viable until we enter a post scarcity world. I find it unlikely we can even attempt it if we're still in a money based econ…

One reasonable definition of 'colonizing' as distinct form 'exploring' is that colonists plan to die there.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#215

Post by aetherson »

skykooler wrote: post #190
orky56 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the Mars 24.5 hr day versus the Moons 28 day-day matter? What are the consequences of this big difference between Earth day and the moon/Mars day?

24.5 hours matches our circadian cycle. On the Moon extra power would be necessary for artificial lighting.

I don't think that lighting is going to be the difference between a viable and unviable non-terran colony.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#216

Post by pharrington »

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

Alot of people react negatively to overt emotional manipulation. Musk's live stream is called "Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species." The only actual information in his talk was about the new line of rockets he's building. Transportation is certainly Musk's specialty, but with the information given combined with what we already know about the man's companies, he cannot even begin to address the scope of the opening promise. Human colonization, in this context, is a bait-and-switch.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#217

Post by Gravityloss »

Retric wrote: post #143
Gravityloss wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of power is a few orders of magnitude too low to propel these kind of masses electrically. Basically you need at least 10 kW per Newton.

If it only saves 2 weeks that's still useful. Don't forget if your using solar power you have much less power the closer you get to mars. So, you effectively get a free surplus at the start of your journey. The other option, is to have a pure transit vehicle from earth orbit to mars orbit and then a 3rd vehicle to land with. This, would work really well if we wanted to really colonize mars. But, if your only sending…

The craft's mass seems to be 15x that. http://imgur.com/a/vwG1S

Maybe for course corrections where you need to fine tune the orbit a couple of mm/s here and there?

For unmanned missions it does make good sense as the mass doesn't grow so strongly if the trip time gets longer.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#218

Post by mikeash »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #203
mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. Right. And as what appears to be the loudest voice in this discussion, it's also my prerogative to advocate for what I believe to be a better allocation of resources. Lets not pretend there is not competition for attention, capital and enthusiasm for vision based projects. That I advocate for one over another - in competition - is exactly wha…

You're free to advocate for other things, but most of the critics aren't doing this, they're just shitting all over this idea and then making vague waves in the general direction of other ideas.

Further, why so much focus on this particular billionaire, who at least is focusing pretty hard on driving progress even if you don't agree on the precise direction, and ignoring all the ones just wasting it, or being actively counterproductive?

That's the part that really drives me nuts. A lot of wealthy people are doing things that are highly questionable or are outright destructive, but they don't get this much criticism.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#219

Post by r00fus »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #104
anexprogrammer wrote: post #93

I'd really like to see us taking space seriously. While I'm still here. One of my earliest strong memories was the last moon landing. This was followed by years of "Tomorrow's World" and "Horizon" telling us about the Moon bases, Mars bases and orbital platforms that would soon follow. We got Skylab and some very interesting probes. I'm a tiny bit disappointed in that. We were meant to be en route to Starfleet Comman…

This brings up a good point. Why mars first? Why not a moon colony first?

I wonder if silicosis is a major concern on Mars (as it is for lunar colony considerations).

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#220

Post by stevep98 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #69
aerovistae wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but you seem to be saying "Let's not be excited about colonizing another planet-- life will be just as depressing there."

That's actually not a bad way to put it! Think about it this way. What if there was an uninhabited island out in the Pacific that was hard to get to. What makes it worth trying to get to? There isn't anything any more special there than here. In fact from all we've seen so far it's much less special. Same goes for Mars. What is the value in being "multi-planetary?" I mean the idea that this is a hedge against some ex…

My understanding is that there is some concern that as a civilization reaches a certain amount of technological capability, they run a higher risk of wiping themselves out. We've only had nuclear weapons for a few decades. Who knows what will happen in the next century. Similar threats may come from biological or AI arenas.

So, the advantage is that you build a completely separate civilization that is relatively immune to all these problems.

I would imagine that, after reaching the point of self-support, Mars inhabitants would focus more on securing their own existence, such as building underground.

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