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Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#171

Post by anexprogrammer »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #167
anexprogrammer wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the electric companies made similar arguments at the start of the 20th century. > Market dominance does not transform a proprietary product into a basic utility Agreed. Isn't it more that it becomes so ubiquitous and expected that it starts to be considered a basic utility by the public? In the case of social and IM it's the network effect that matters - where are family and friends. Once a certain tipping…

I'm doubtful. With that definition, lattes should be made a utility. So should shoes. Tires. A utility is indicated by, requiring so heavy an investment in infrastructure that would be onerous to the public to support duplicates.

Fair point, I was only thinking of things at that scale when writing, so requiring big investment and infrastructure - phone networks, social networks, water, etc.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#172

Post by kuschku »

patrickaljord wrote: post #134
khabaal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did not. Opt-Out is not asking for consent. And even if you Opt-Out, WhatsApp will submit your data to facebook for analytic purposes. The real problem here was quoted as "misdirection of the [whatsapp] users and the public" because WhatsApp stated that there wont be any data exchange between them and facebook, when they were accuired two years ago.

Doesn't the Whatsapp TOS says that they can update that TOS whenever and however they want? Do you have to accept that TOS before using Whatsapp for the first time? So users accepted a TOS that says Whatsapp can change their rules as they wish and now they are angry because they did just that? I totally support people who don't like these kind of TOS and use open source alternative, but people who accepted these kind…

> but people who accepted these kinds of TOS and then complain when they do what they state they would do, that I don't support.

German law says ToS can not contain surprising terms.

That also means if an ad says "we won’t share your data, ever", no ToS change, unless it’s more publicly published than the original ad, and as easily noticeable and understandable, can undo that.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#173

Post by chinathrow »

bikamonki wrote: post #147

You can go get an off-contract sim card, use it on a clean Android, create a fake gmail account in order to download and install Whatsapp. Now you make connections (you add family and friends to your contacts) and start communicating. By now both FB and Google know who you are simply b/c other people in your network, not concerned with privacy, have you saved on their contacts list, pressumably under your first and l…

Yes there is. Call in legislation to fix the missing things.

US data protection laws are a joke. EU leads the way. We'll see more in the future, I am positive.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#174

Post by timehastoldme »

0xmohit wrote: post #36

Quoting from the link: Facebook said on Tuesday, after the order had been issued, that it had complied with Europe’s privacy rules and that it was willing to work with the German regulator to address its concerns. Two Indian students challenged Facebook on WhatsApp privacy policy changes [0]. The following is what WhatsApp counsel told [1]: Using the messaging service is a voluntary decision, we have not forced anybo…

Interesting question: do we think the Facebook people actually believe the "usage is voluntary, so we can do whatever we want" line of reasoning? It's clearly a very persuasive PR argument, but there are some smart people at FB, especially working on WhatsApp.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#175

Post by wolfgke »

pjc50 wrote: post #152
wolfgke wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, it is voluntary, but it would be socially alienating not to be on that service. On the other hand: Do people who care about privacy very much really get along well with people who don't and force you in subtile ways to use such a messaging service? I rather think it's the completely different mindset of these two classes of people that is socially alienating and the message service is just a symptom (I believe…

Some of the people who care most about privacy are also very social: activists and politicians.

For activists I think you are biased by the fact that by definition you only perceive activists that are rather social. I, for example, consider myself as very acivist, but also very unsocial.

For politicians my perception is different: one might be tempted to call them privacy activists, but only for their own privacy (for obvious reasons), but not for passing laws protecting the privacy of the ordinary citizen.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#178

Post by davidf18 »

codingmyway wrote: post #29
microtonal wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now things are going to get interesting! I completely understand the desire for privacy but I thinkmit's unrealistic to expect that Facebook won't consolidate its data by user across all their applications. Facebook (and Google, etc.) are now in the same business as the credit reporting agencies ... You are their only product. The difference in this particular case is that Whatsapp made an explicit promise that they…

This all comes back to the two-faced saying of one thing loud and publicly while in the small print buried in legalese proclaiming something else. That practice needs to be illegal. It is basically fraud.

Part of the "product/service" is the protection of privacy that was promised and since breeched. It is because of network effects that make it hard for users that understand privacy and value it to move to another service such as Signal. If there were that form of "user liquidity" then our privacy would not be violated for users would simply switch to a product that valued their privacy.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#179

Post by dhimes »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #164
woliveirajr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting when you confront this with those decisions of Brazilian courts of suspending /blocking WhatsApp during some days. Because the response, from the court order, is always "Facebook and WhatsApp are separeted companies, you are asking Facebook (that has a office in Brazil) to answer for WhatsApp (that hasn't), Facebook doesn't have access to any meta-data from WhatsApp (including which user talked to another…

If this is true, then Facebook might find itself in quite some bother now or in the future. Can you provide a reference?

For some previous discussions here:

duckduckgo whatsapp facebook brazil !hn

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#180

Post by jooize »

FabHK wrote: post #130

Can everyone just please install Wire [1]: * free, * end-to-end encrypted * text and voice chat * with pictures and group chat and what have you, * using the Signal/OpenWhisper protocol, * with desktop and web clients, * open source (GPLv3, and on github [2]), * signup with phone number or email, * based in Switzerland, * what else can you ask for? Signal itself of course is pretty good, secure (recommended by Ed Sno…

> * using the Signal/OpenWhisper protocol,

Developer of Signal says:

> Wire does not use Signal Protocol. They used some of our code, but created a protocol of their own devising that we do not recommend.

— moxie, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12149642

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