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What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

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Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#31

Post by 3chelon »

I once got a full refund on a laptop outside of its warranty period because a software update (Windows 8.1) effectively bricked the machine. I demanded it under the UK Sale of Goods Act, which states that a product must be fit for purpose, which it clearly no longer was once the automatic update had happened.

I do wonder if this can be more broadly applied to consumer products that effectively change their behaviour after a software update. Is it the same product you originally bought? I would contest not. And surely lawyers could have a field day with this one?

Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#32

Post by PretzelFisch »

Agustus wrote: post #13

A brother MFC is $250, is sturdier and does not hate me as a consumer. Changing a toner is $50 per cartridge. I recommend it to every person looking for a printer: Buy a laser printer.

You really need to look at your 50 cartridge as a cost per page. Some Brother's take a larger capacity cartridge that costs more but results in a lower cost per page.

Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#33

Post by dalacv »

Agustus wrote: post #13

A brother MFC is $250, is sturdier and does not hate me as a consumer. Changing a toner is $50 per cartridge. I recommend it to every person looking for a printer: Buy a laser printer.

I love my Brother MFC (7840W). This is the longest I've ever owned a printer and the toner is not expensive when compared to inkjet.

Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#35

Post by smithkl42 »

praptak wrote: post #22
SyneRyder wrote: post #5

I generally like the EFF, and I'm a member (albeit at a low paying level)... but if you're really unhappy about this, isn't it better just to stop buying HP printer products? Rather than being so activist & "omg outrage!", why doesn't the EFF publish a list of printers that the EFF currently does recommend? Almost like the Wirecutter does with their product testing reviews. (It sounds like Epson might be one alternat…

Because consumer choice is a very weak weapon against your freedoms being taken away. Political action is what corporations fear, in particular the threat of organized support behind ideas to regulate them more heavily. Edit: RMS quote: "All in all, I think it is a mistake to defend people’s rights with one hand tied behind our backs, using nothing except the individual option to say no to a deal. We should use democ…

That's kind of overstating things, isn't it? Yes, what HP did was balls-up stupid, and I'll think hard before buying anything from them, but companies have liberties too. They have rights to free speech (you don't want the government telling newspapers what to print), and they have rights to sell what they want, just as we have rights to not buy the merde they try to force on us. Twitter has the right to shut down speech on its network that it doesn't like, and that's not a First Amendment issue. Nobody's liberties are being taken away: rather, someone's liberties are being exercised.

Now, I do think that a lawsuit may be in order here, because it seems quite plausible that HP acted deceptively. But that's not "our rights being taken away", which is primarily an issue related to the guys with guns (i.e., the government). This isn't that: rather, it's a company lying to us, and trying to get us to buy their product on false pretenses.

Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#36

Post by mattkevan »

I've made a solemn vow never to purchase a HP product again, after I discovered that the printer I'd bought (from a major UK retailer) was region-locked to US ink. Which you can't buy in the UK.

I threw that thing into the e-waste bin with some force when it finally broke.

Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#37

Post by Declanomous »

adrusi wrote: post #29
praptak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because consumer choice is a very weak weapon against your freedoms being taken away. Political action is what corporations fear, in particular the threat of organized support behind ideas to regulate them more heavily. Edit: RMS quote: "All in all, I think it is a mistake to defend people’s rights with one hand tied behind our backs, using nothing except the individual option to say no to a deal. We should use democ…

Why would they fear regulation? Their competitors become subject to the same restrictions.

Their competitors may be subject to the same regulations, but new regulations force companies to develop products that comply with the new regulations. R&D is a huge expense, and you can't guarantee the product you develop is going to be better than your competitors.

Furthermore, their competitors might already have a product which meets the new regulations, or one which can be easily modified to meet them. This can lead to a financial advantage, but it can also mean the competitor has a period where they are the only product on the market.

Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#38

Post by davidsong »

ts330 wrote: post #26

how much does it cost to setup a factory to produce a half decent printer-scanner with ink cartridges and ink supplies? this entire industry is broken. surely basic printers are so well understood by now that every component is a commodity? for the majority of people, a printer that simply just works is good enough. you do not need to upgrade every year. you do not need the latest in ink technology - you want photo p…

Imagine playing minesweeper on advanced difficulty, blindfolded, but where all the mines are patents. It would be a bit like that unless you wanted 25 year old printer technology.

Re: What HP Must Do to Make Amends for Its Self-Destructing Printers

#39

Post by jackmott »

smithkl42 wrote: post #35
praptak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because consumer choice is a very weak weapon against your freedoms being taken away. Political action is what corporations fear, in particular the threat of organized support behind ideas to regulate them more heavily. Edit: RMS quote: "All in all, I think it is a mistake to defend people’s rights with one hand tied behind our backs, using nothing except the individual option to say no to a deal. We should use democ…

That's kind of overstating things, isn't it? Yes, what HP did was balls-up stupid, and I'll think hard before buying anything from them, but companies have liberties too. They have rights to free speech (you don't want the government telling newspapers what to print), and they have rights to sell what they want, just as we have rights to not buy the merde they try to force on us. Twitter has the right to shut down sp…

How about we start characterizing "company lying to us" as theft, and put them in actual jail for it, then?

If you want to treat corporations like people with liberties, let's make basic laws like fraud and theft have consequences. We shoot and choke to death people selling cigarettes or cds 'illegally' on the side of the street why can't Wells Fargo executives go to jail for theft?

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