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The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

tech.mit.edu

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Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#111

Post by ido »

abalashov wrote: post #53
rdtsc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually undermines his main point -- that he stuck to his "morals" and forgone the "large" hush money check at the end. If he was making enough to retire by his 30s then $16k wasn't that significant of an amount. That means the didn't really lose a lot so his "moral" stance is more symbolic, and not the tough financial decision that article might imply.

Eh, maybe. Numerologically, I think you're right, but you do have to keep in mind that a $16,000 lump sum has a lot more subjective value going out the door to an uncertain future and a zero income - at least, temporarily - than it does in the course of making six figures at a stable job. I'm not saying he had any reason to suspect he wouldn't be able to find another job, and even quickly, but it probably wouldn't pa…

    Numerologically
I don't think numerology means what you think it means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#112

Post by gjm11 »

jackowayed wrote: post #54
caffeine wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it shows closed-mindedness on his part. They taught him analysis at MIT, but they didn't teach him to think properly. You're a guy with a degree from the top technical school in the world and you've got one of the world's most prestigious consultancies on your resume: you don't think you could go on to find a job in which you could afford your kids' education AND not be a hypocrite? I respect him for standing…

Well he was taking a double course-load and working, so that may count as being buried in sand. But still, even if he didn't know beforehand, he figured it out very quickly upon arrival and then stayed for a long time for the money, so I agree with most of your point.

Did he stay a long time? It doesn't look that way to me from the article, but maybe I just missed something.

http://thesensibletechnocrat.blogspot.com/2009/06/third-day-... seems to imply that he started there in June 2009. http://thesensibletechnocrat.blogspot.com/2009/10/moral-impe... seems to imply he was still there in October.

... Ooh, and all four parts of the story of which the OP here is part 3 are together in one handy bundle at http://thesensibletechnocrat.blogspot.com/2010/03/dubai-and-... .

So, he was apparently there for at least 4 months and at most 9 months. I wouldn't call that "a long time" in this context.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#113

Post by sree_nair »

jackowayed wrote: post #54
caffeine wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it shows closed-mindedness on his part. They taught him analysis at MIT, but they didn't teach him to think properly. You're a guy with a degree from the top technical school in the world and you've got one of the world's most prestigious consultancies on your resume: you don't think you could go on to find a job in which you could afford your kids' education AND not be a hypocrite? I respect him for standing…

Well he was taking a double course-load and working, so that may count as being buried in sand. But still, even if he didn't know beforehand, he figured it out very quickly upon arrival and then stayed for a long time for the money, so I agree with most of your point.

The Assumption here seems to be that these kind of decisions are 'one second' ones. sadly, they are not. Most people in most situation take time in deciding one way or other. Mostly until they find a strong push in either direction. In this case it seems to be the confidentiality agreement.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#114

Post by sree_nair »

rdtsc wrote: post #45
lobo-tuerto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think this is the correct interpretation. Maybe he needed to scream out loud to bring a bit of relief to his abused up moral.

The problem is, his description of his morality crisis don't quite match with his actions. He did quit, but it was probably because everyone else saw the ship sinking and was jumping off. His $16k "sacrifice" at the end was not much if he claims he would have made enough to retire by 30s and just live off interest. So, yes, he had a bit some moral struggles, but it sounds like he managed to successfully "overcome" mo…

Have to add that the sacrifice is not the 16K, but it is the $200,000/Year salary.16 K was just the signing bonus.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#115

Post by tomjen3 »

api wrote: post #68

"I got the feeling that our clients were simply trying to mimic successful businesses, and that as consultants, our earnings came from having the luck of being included in an elaborate cargo-cult ritual." WOW that is dead on. I get the feeling half the world is like that.

The problem is that it is not that simple, because just doing what others do works very well in most cases and you don't have the time to start questioning _everything_ - why do you shower in the morning? Why eat three times a day?

I don't want to defend cargo-cults, but people copy because it works.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#116

Post by abalashov »

ido wrote: post #111
abalashov wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, maybe. Numerologically, I think you're right, but you do have to keep in mind that a $16,000 lump sum has a lot more subjective value going out the door to an uncertain future and a zero income - at least, temporarily - than it does in the course of making six figures at a stable job. I'm not saying he had any reason to suspect he wouldn't be able to find another job, and even quickly, but it probably wouldn't pa…

Numerologically I don't think numerology means what you think it means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology

You're right; I meant "numerically."

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#117

Post by abalashov »

gjm11 wrote: post #109
rdtsc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually undermines his main point -- that he stuck to his "morals" and forgone the "large" hush money check at the end. If he was making enough to retire by his 30s then $16k wasn't that significant of an amount. That means the didn't really lose a lot so his "moral" stance is more symbolic, and not the tough financial decision that article might imply.

I don't think that was his main point. He had, after all, just said that he was willing to compromise his morals to the extent of continuing to work with BCG despite the dishonesty it involved -- because the amount of money potentially involved was so large. "I think I’ve come to the conclusion that having a father who can pay for a top-notch education outweighs the disadvantage of being raised by a hypocrite. Sticki…

I would tend to concur, as this was my initial reading as well.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#119

Post by tkahn6 »

barrkel wrote: post #96
tkahn6 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not confuse capitalism with anarchism. Capitalism believes in a government which protects private property and human life with physical force. You can pay someone to punch someone else, but that's inconsistent with capitalistic philosophy.

Why would a government protect human life with physical force? Remember, the justification must be from a free market, not with reference to some other moral system. What, in a free market moral system, prevents slavery? The justification must come from the free market, if free market is to be the moral system.

The justification must come from the free market, if free market is to be the moral system.

How can there exist a free market without the guarantee of the protection of private property? Without that you have anarchy (whoever is physically strongest wins).

I've never heard of someone invoking the idea of a "free market" without implying that the agents of the market are protected from physical harm.

This is by no means 'official' but from the first sentence of the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market:

"A free market is a market without economic intervention and regulation by government except to outlaw and prosecute force or fraud."

When people say "free market" this is what they imply.

What, in a free market moral system, prevents slavery?

The government.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#120

Post by cschwarm »

barrkel wrote: post #21

Something that leaped out at me: "I believe that voluntary exchange is not just a good method of incentivizing people to provide their labor and talents to society, but a robust moral system". Voluntary exchange is not a moral system. A free market doesn't have morals.

True.

But some moral systems are consequentialistic [1] and for its proponents, the means are justified by the ends. A free market could be seen as a means to reach the moral end. Thus, they are often mixed up.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialist

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