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Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#201

Post by jakebasile »

imagist wrote: post #190
dragonwriter wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point of the majority of the conversation here is that there isn't systemic discrimination happening. Yes, the article links to research showing systematic discrimination here, and many people here are dismissing the possibility without addressing the research, acknowledging it is even referenced, or doing anything more than stating their firm belief that discrimination is not occurring. > People like to…

The study did not show systematic discrimination. It showed that obese patients presenting with hip and knee problems were systematically denied surgery in favor of weight loss as a treatment. There is a strong case to be made that weight loss is the proper treatment for those patients, given that weight loss is a much less risky treatment, and has positive side effects beyond treating the condition at hand. For me t…

And of course it is impossible to find other avenues of treatment if one doesn't work for the patient.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#202

Post by __jal »

wyager wrote: post #194
__jal wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bluntly, this discussion makes it pretty clear that asking skinny technical people about medical obesity is pretty close to asking Donald Trump about how to solve crime: get more violent. If it doesn't work, you weren't violent enough. If it does, get more violent, because it is clearly working. Change a few words and you're there. The ignorant certainty the arrogant dismissiveness that comes with it are breathtaking…

Nice response. Instead of addressing anything I said, just make tenuous political metaphors and baseless claims of ignorance. > It is genuinely sad. It's ironic that you're using Trump as an example of bad argumentation, given that your styles are quite similar. "You're so sad. You're a slob. You're a mess." Etc. etc.

> Nice response.

Thanks. I realized that discussing this with you was a waste of time.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#203

Post by scarface74 »

botfly wrote: post #172
scarface74 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in the best shape of my adult life, I weighed 175, with 10% body fat (measured with calipers) and a size 30 waist. I wasn't overly into lifting weights but did a lot of cardio. My BMI was 30 - obese. 5 years later. I do about 3 hours of cardio a week, I weigh 185 and my waist is about 32. My BMI is 31.8. No doctor has ever looked at me and said I need to lose weight. BMI is completely bunk in my case.

You're 5'3" and weighed 175? You must be built like a tank

5"4. But like I said. I don't lift weights anymore at all. But most people assume I do.

As far as the caliper body fat test. It was done using 6 parts of the body.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#204

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

et2o wrote: post #11

The problem is that obesity is truly the primary cause of many medical problems. You can treat other symptoms but sometimes things won't get better. This article is garbage.

> The problem is that obesity is truly the primary cause of many medical problems.

Obesity makes lots of medical conditions worse (or more likely), but it's the primary cause of almost none of them. It's rare that it's even the biggest risk factor.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#205

Post by hasenj »

CalRobert wrote: post #185
hasenj wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be obese. I know what causes obesity. It basically does boil down to over indulgence. If you're in denial about that, I can see why you would be. It's no different than religious people denying science to protect their egos. However, your sensitivity does not warrant that others should indulge your delusions and fantasies.

In light of your past experience overcoming your indulgence, you may wish to take some time to recognize that a community of informed, helpful people (basically HN) is pointing out that you're indulging in arrogance and self righteousness, and you might consider applying the same self control that you used to overcome obesity to your other character flaws.

HN is not pointing out anything to me. There's a couple of members here who seem to be involved in the "fat acceptance movement" who are defending the article.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#206

Post by hasenj »

jakebasile wrote: post #200
hasenj wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then ask the doctor to help you lose weight, instead of complaining that the doctor shouldn't advice you to lose weight. If a cure for bipolar disorder exist but a bipolar patient refused to take it because it hurts their self image, what do you presume the doctor should do?

Find another way to help the patient.

Would you be open to possibly having to restrain the patient and force them to take the medicine? Would you be open to shaming then into taking it? Would it be wrong to say that unless they want to be cured, no one can help them?

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#207

Post by wyager »

__jal wrote: post #202
wyager wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice response. Instead of addressing anything I said, just make tenuous political metaphors and baseless claims of ignorance. > It is genuinely sad. It's ironic that you're using Trump as an example of bad argumentation, given that your styles are quite similar. "You're so sad. You're a slob. You're a mess." Etc. etc.

> Nice response. Thanks. I realized that discussing this with you was a waste of time.

Was that before or after you wrote this response? Because you seem to still be doing it, and still not making any coherent arguments.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#208

Post by voidtype »

tcj_phx wrote: post #117
roflchoppa wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk why this is being downvoted, its Cal-in,Cal-out... this should have been taught in that health class we took in highschool. I'd argue it should be taught in elementary.

> Idk why this is being downvoted, its Cal-in,Cal-out... Calories-in vs. Calories-out is not helpful advice. A person's metabolism can slow to a crawl if the person is starving. It's much better to fix the metabolism, and remove metabolism-destroying foods from the diet. Many common foods should not be eaten (tofu), or only eaten when well-cooked (kale) [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goitrogen#Goitrogenic_foo…

CICO is incredibly helpful advice, and should be the main piece of advice given to anyone wanting to lose weight. I wish someone told me when I was starting out. Eating healthy and working out doesn't mean anything if you're not counting your calories and making sure CI "You don't need to exercise, you don't even need to eat healthy. Eat less than your BMR and you WILL lose weight."

Your claims of a metabolism slowing down "to a crawl" if a person is hungry isn't helpful in the slightest; comments like this demoralise people. They work out, eat kale, make sure to never feel hungry lest they "slow down their metabolism to a crawl" and still aren't losing weight. "why bother?"

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#209

Post by CalRobert »

hasenj wrote: post #205
CalRobert wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In light of your past experience overcoming your indulgence, you may wish to take some time to recognize that a community of informed, helpful people (basically HN) is pointing out that you're indulging in arrogance and self righteousness, and you might consider applying the same self control that you used to overcome obesity to your other character flaws.

HN is not pointing out anything to me. There's a couple of members here who seem to be involved in the "fat acceptance movement" who are defending the article.

Hi! I'm a fellow hn user.

You're being a jerk.

That work?

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#210

Post by Evgeny »

jakebasile wrote: post #96

Irrespective of the article, the comments in here are appalling. Ask yourself if it's truly acceptable to paint big people with such a broad brush. HN commenters are generally liberal, and liberals (I am one as well, this is not an insult) will fall over themselves to decry real or perceived discrimination against women, minorities, or disabled people - unless that disability happens to be obesity. Would these commen…

I've tried everything in the book to lose weight

What is your daily caloric intake? What about height / weight? What is your estimated TDEE?

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