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U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#81

Post by Jugurtha »

palakchokshi wrote: post #75
Jugurtha wrote: post #69

What is the definition of Asian, here? One has to remember that Middle Eastern countries and Pakistan are in Asia. Given the nature of what Palantir does, it is easy to guess why it would discriminate against a certain category of people who have ties to foreign countries in general, and sensitive countries in particular. It is the same problem intelligence agencies faced when they wanted Arabic/Urdu speakers. Those…

There are well established processes to vet someone who might be handling sensitive information. There are security clearances that can be obtained. The fact that someone is from a foreign country should not be the basis of discriminating against them. Secondly if Palantir works on highly sensitive data it probably requires applicants to be US citizens. So essentially it is probably discriminating against Asian Ameri…

>Secondly if Palantir works on highly sensitive data it probably requires applicants to be US citizens. So essentially it is probably discriminating against Asian Americans and not citizens of other countries.

My remark was about Arabic and Urdu speakers who are US Citizens (the possibility that they'd be foreigners didn't even cross my mind). After the Iraq invasion, there were many people who applied to work with Intelligence agencies. US citizens. They just happened to have ties to said countries (you know, your father or grandfather came to the US and you were born here, but your uncle still is in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan).

There was a severe shortage of fluent speakers despite a lot of eager applicants. A "We want native Iraqi dialect speakers, but those who speak it just happen to be of Iraqi descent. We can't hire those" situation.

Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#82

Post by smallnamespace »

This is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If their employee racial ratios matched the US population, then they will get bashed like this.

If their employee racial ratios match the 'qualified candidate pool', then they'll get bashed for not hiring enough women and black people.

We haven't as a society agreed on the right way to deal with race, but there's certainly plenty of loud and angry people supporting their own points of view...

Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#83

Post by TallGuyShort »

mikeryan wrote: post #28
TallGuyShort wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if ratio hired matched ratio applied, then 73% of those hired would have been Asian and they could be accused of discrimination the other way.

And if ratio hired matched ratio applied, then 73% of those hired would have been Asian and they could be accused of discrimination the other way. If the ratio of those hired matches the ratio of applicants how does anyone make a complaint of discrimination?

The same complaint is the basis of sexism in the tech industry. I haven't seen many resumes from women cross my desk. So it's not that I'M being sexist, but clearly there's a problem somewhere. And it could be the way I'm soliciting those resumes in the first place.

Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#84

Post by [deleted] »

vthallam wrote: post #55
ones_and_zeros wrote: post #49

Palantir gets some of my sympathy. My organization has a large internship program and I've been first contact for many applicants. I found that a similar number of applicants had to be dropped either due to communication skills or an overall technical skills gap and they tended to be asian/southeast asian. Interestingly most of them fit the same profile of a bachelor's from India, 1 or 2 years at a consulting firm in…

Wow! I kind of fit into your sterotype, except i graduated from a large private university. Isn't it stupid that you are putting a billion people in the same pool(Indian bachelors+ consulting firm exp+US State school = suckers)?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#85

Post by Devthrowaway80 »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #49

Palantir gets some of my sympathy. My organization has a large internship program and I've been first contact for many applicants. I found that a similar number of applicants had to be dropped either due to communication skills or an overall technical skills gap and they tended to be asian/southeast asian. Interestingly most of them fit the same profile of a bachelor's from India, 1 or 2 years at a consulting firm in…

I have had a similar problem - interviewed dozens of people with exactly that pattern and they were universally clueless. No idea how seemingly-good Masters programs bring in so many people with zero basic CS knowledge.

Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#86

Post by mahyarm »

vthallam wrote: post #55
ones_and_zeros wrote: post #49

Palantir gets some of my sympathy. My organization has a large internship program and I've been first contact for many applicants. I found that a similar number of applicants had to be dropped either due to communication skills or an overall technical skills gap and they tended to be asian/southeast asian. Interestingly most of them fit the same profile of a bachelor's from India, 1 or 2 years at a consulting firm in…

Wow! I kind of fit into your sterotype, except i graduated from a large private university. Isn't it stupid that you are putting a billion people in the same pool(Indian bachelors+ consulting firm exp+US State school = suckers)?

That subset of indians isn't a billion although...

Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#88

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

smallnamespace wrote: post #82

This is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If their employee racial ratios matched the US population, then they will get bashed like this. If their employee racial ratios match the 'qualified candidate pool', then they'll get bashed for not hiring enough women and black people. We haven't as a society agreed on the right way to deal with race, but there's certainly plenty of loud and angry people suppor…

You didn't read the article. They're being sued due to their final hiring being grossly out of step vs the qualified candidate pool.

You also appear to be assuming that there's no way the qualified candidate pool could have as many women and black americans as the broader US population. That assumption is, and continues to be, the problem.

Re: U.S. regulators accuse Palantir of bias against Asians

#89

Post by jonathankoren »

danso wrote: post #63
thedz wrote: post #53

I think many of the comments are missing a few important points: 1. Yes, 20% Asian hiring rate is pretty decent when you compare to the general Asian population at large. However , the lawsuit specifically alleges that, in one example case, the qualified application pool was 73% Asian. In that case, it's extremely abnormal to hire 17 non-Asians and only 4 Asians. 2. Palantir is involved in government contracting, so…

Has any other major tech company released numbers on what their hiring demographics look like compared to their qualified application pool? I've seen the demographics for employees in diversity reports, but not qualified-applicant pool numbers. Because, sure, perhaps many of the Asian applicants are poor enough at English that it outweighs whatever got them into the qualified-pool. But I would guess that would be a p…

While I can't comment on the DOL's methodology because I don't know what it is, I've seen many SV tech companies essentially define the qualified-applicant pool in a way to explain systemic biases. The most obvious one, is "Unless you attended school X, you're unqualified," which quite frankly, is utter bullshit.
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