Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Autism and Evolution

hms.harvard.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 91 posts

Re: Autism and Evolution

#71

Post by wpietri »

dsacco wrote: post #59
nerdponx wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When are we going to finally ditch the idea that heritable==genetic?

>>When are we going to finally ditch the idea that heritable==genetic? Well, considering the fact that "heritability" is a measure of how much of a given phenotype's expression is due to genetic variation, probably not soon. "Heritable" is not a word used to refer to environmental factors such as parental care and upbringing. In studies on heritability of specific traits, these environmental factors are used as class…

Thanks, dsacco. Exactly what I meant, but even better put.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#72

Post by nerdponx »

dsacco wrote: post #59
nerdponx wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When are we going to finally ditch the idea that heritable==genetic?

>>When are we going to finally ditch the idea that heritable==genetic? Well, considering the fact that "heritability" is a measure of how much of a given phenotype's expression is due to genetic variation, probably not soon. "Heritable" is not a word used to refer to environmental factors such as parental care and upbringing. In studies on heritability of specific traits, these environmental factors are used as class…

Thanks for clarifying. In that case, let me rephrase: when are we going to stop assuming that everything that runs in families and is genetic?

Re: Autism and Evolution

#73

Post by jawarner »

azakai wrote: post #38
CuriouslyC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that the mutations are retained as variation in the population because having some small subset of them probably results in divergent thinking which can increase overall group survival. Autistic spectrum disorder individuals result from having too many of these mutations, such that neural activity patterns find a stable equilibrium outside of "normal" (think strange attractors in system dynamics).

A reasonable theory, but as a minor note most evolutionary biologists wouldn't focus on group survival. Group selection remains controversial. But your point still stands, and has clear parallels in other cases, like sickle-cell anemia: one copy of the gene is helpful, so it remains in the population, but two copies is harmful, so its spread is limited.

I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but this article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_game_theory) mentions Hamilton's rule: A given altristic gene will propogate if "the genetic relatedness of the altruistic donor exceeds the cost-benefit ratio of the altruistic act itself". Is this not widely agreed upon?

Re: Autism and Evolution

#74

Post by arrosenberg »

3pt14159 wrote: post #58
gertef wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a child with autism, pain becomes debilitating because they can't communicate or cope with pain well. That doesn't mean an allergy or intolerance causes autism, however. An allergy or intolerance is much worse when it make your nonverbal child irritable and violent, then when it makes your verbal child say "mom, my tummy hurts bad" after you serve pizza.

Now that he's verbal he can describe what it felt like: He was completely off his ass baked. Just high as a kite. Unable to focus he was so high.

Really? Did they do any kind of blood tests with and without wheat germ in his diet? It would be interesting to know what exactly was causing that response. That doesn't really sound like a normal allergic reaction.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#75

Post by jerf »

nerdponx wrote: post #72
dsacco wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>When are we going to finally ditch the idea that heritable==genetic? Well, considering the fact that "heritability" is a measure of how much of a given phenotype's expression is due to genetic variation, probably not soon. "Heritable" is not a word used to refer to environmental factors such as parental care and upbringing. In studies on heritability of specific traits, these environmental factors are used as class…

Thanks for clarifying. In that case, let me rephrase: when are we going to stop assuming that everything that runs in families and is genetic?

Well, it would have to come after we start. I think you're boxing strawmen in your head. In the rest of the world the debate between nature and nuture has been vigorously raging for decades and there isn't a "winner".

Re: Autism and Evolution

#76

Post by CuriouslyC »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #23

I went the other way with it: high-functioning autism is a component of more-evolved humans. The autistics are more rational, often less selfish in my anecdotal experience, and cause almost no harm to others vs baseline. A world full of them would've largely eliminated famine, pollution, war, violent crime. It would be a fraction of what we see. Further, autistics and introverts are often behind many great advances t…

Why do you have to be something different, the next thing after? Other highly coordinated organisms like ants, bees and termites have evolved morphologically distinct developmental paths. Couldn't autistics just be in a sense extreme examples of a subtype of human that serves the purpose of disrupting group-think and introducing new ideas into the culture?

Re: Autism and Evolution

#77

Post by nickpsecurity »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #76
nickpsecurity wrote: post #23

I went the other way with it: high-functioning autism is a component of more-evolved humans. The autistics are more rational, often less selfish in my anecdotal experience, and cause almost no harm to others vs baseline. A world full of them would've largely eliminated famine, pollution, war, violent crime. It would be a fraction of what we see. Further, autistics and introverts are often behind many great advances t…

Why do you have to be something different, the next thing after? Other highly coordinated organisms like ants, bees and termites have evolved morphologically distinct developmental paths. Couldn't autistics just be in a sense extreme examples of a subtype of human that serves the purpose of disrupting group-think and introducing new ideas into the culture?

" Couldn't autistics just be in a sense extreme examples of a subtype of human that serves the purpose of disrupting group-think and introducing new ideas into the culture?"

Very well could be.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#78

Post by nickpsecurity »

wpietri wrote: post #65
nickpsecurity wrote: post #23

I went the other way with it: high-functioning autism is a component of more-evolved humans. The autistics are more rational, often less selfish in my anecdotal experience, and cause almost no harm to others vs baseline. A world full of them would've largely eliminated famine, pollution, war, violent crime. It would be a fraction of what we see. Further, autistics and introverts are often behind many great advances t…

I like this. Personally, I am not big on better/worse, but just different. E.g., we could look at white people as a weird mutation of true humans, one shockingly prone to skin cancer. Of course, as a white person, I'd rather see myself as an equally valid kind of human. For a while I've been wondering what the DSM would look like if non-neurotypical people were in the majority. If we had a diganostic category for wha…

"For a while I've been wondering what the DSM would look like if non-neurotypical people were in the majority. If we had a diganostic category for what we now call "normal" levels of sociality, selfishness, manipulation, violence, etc."

Interestingly, I think a good chunk of the diagnosis would be the autistic equivalent of what normal people call psychopaths. They'd be seen as irrational and dangerous, esp in groups.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#79

Post by nickpsecurity »

gertef wrote: post #62
nickpsecurity wrote: post #23

I went the other way with it: high-functioning autism is a component of more-evolved humans. The autistics are more rational, often less selfish in my anecdotal experience, and cause almost no harm to others vs baseline. A world full of them would've largely eliminated famine, pollution, war, violent crime. It would be a fraction of what we see. Further, autistics and introverts are often behind many great advances t…

OTOH, a world full of people with autism might never be able to come together and build large group projects. Autism might work well for creating in the computer+Internet age (but I have doubts that non-autism traits are totally unnecessary), but much less likely to work in lower-tech society.

"OTOH, a world full of people with autism might never be able to come together and build large group projects. "

This was a problem for the Autreat conference. It was made by autistics for autistics. The coordination required to create it was a big problem. I wonder if things would get better if they were the norm. I'm not sure.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#80

Post by PlugTunin »

zerognowl wrote: post #55
cmiles74 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not seen any evidence that Asperger Syndrome or mild autism leads to well-paid occupations. For sure, there is some anecdotal evidence (which I find unconvincing), but I haven't come across anything more solid, like a research paper or study. If you've seen something along those lines, please post a link. I do believe that children with Asperger Syndrome often see the symptoms grow less severe as they age. Per…

What appears to be Aspergers now is very similar to spending lots of time on the Internet and then trying to interact socially afterwards. It's quite difficult to appear neuro-typical after a surfing session, and for today's kids, Aspergers is the 'New Normal'. Aspergers was even taken off the DSM-5: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

If I'm understanding your comment correctly, it sounds like you're insinuating that it's a fake disorder. No offense, but you're grossly misinformed.
Post reply on HN