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Introducing .NET Standard

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Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#41

Post by kierenj »

ihsw wrote: post #35
mbesto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone have a breakdown of how .NET Core/4.5/MVC/etc interact, are different, etc?

.Net Core: cross-platform build tooling, minimal API .Net Standard: cross-platform comprehensive API .Net 4.5: Windows-only build tooling + comprehensive API .Net MVC: Windows-only web framework built on .Net 4+

Not quite (I think): .NET Standard is an API definition, or rather a versioned set of them. ".NET Framework" (e.g 4.5) "implements" that definition, with some extra features to boot. ".NET Core" also implements it. It's a cut-down (though not very), cross-platform implementation of the .NET Standard.

Mono is another implementation of the standard.. cross-platform too, but this time compatible with the actual .NET Framework, i.e. 4.5.

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#42

Post by arenaninja »

euroclydon wrote: post #33

I lead a .NET development team, and I have no plans start using Core any time soon. That's based on my experience testing it out -- just too different, too based on a myriad of nuget packages (which is too much like NPM for me). This confirms my decision. I'm sure it will be nice once it's all sorted out. The money quote for me is below: Since our goal was to represent any .NET platform we had to break it up into sma…

Here's the other side of the coin, as someone who's worked primarily with npm (JS), composer (PHP), had a taste of cargo (rust) and of course yum, apt-get, etc.: packages are awesome. npm is weird and hellish because people write single-function packages, but that isn't the case in other ecosystems. NuGet provides an easy and familiar way for me to get into it, as opposed to having to absorb the entire ecosystem at once.

I agree though, that the challenge is different in a compiled language (from JS/PHP), and when dependencies get specific you might be out of luck (when .NET Core was announced I had a hard time following Microsoft's own tutorial because minor revision was different between two key packages)

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#43

Post by mythz »

As a library author having to target multiple platforms .NET Standard + project.json is much less painful to support than PCL's - looking forward to when we can drop PCL's and just ship .NET Standard builds.

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#44

Post by douche »

rch wrote: post #18
xori wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's better to cheer loudly when we see a monolith move an inch. Better to say you're going the right way than to say you have a mile minus an inch to go.

Last week I might have agreed with you, but it is really difficult when I'm actually dealing with this mess.

Is the pain because it is ASP.NET MVC, or because you're trying to save an outsourced project? I've done that, and I've done greenfield MVC projects; one of these is much more painful than the other.

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#45

Post by alistproducer2 »

2bitencryption wrote: post #11
arenaninja wrote: post #3

In the last 10 years I wouldn't have bet on C# to be the language to be the most excited about, and yet here we are. Kudos for dealing with fragmentation

I started using Xamarin to develop an Android app, expecting the Xamarin platform to be some gross in-between which only exists to squeeze just a few more developers onto C#. But, no joke, it's a BETTER experience than Android Studio. I had a much better time using Xamarin Studio (on OS X) and Visual Studio with Xamarin (on Windows) than I ever did with Android Studio. And not just because of the tools: C# provides s…

For me, the biggest downside to AS is its reliance on graddle. I used AS pretty extensively and I honestly feel like the Eclipse workflow was much better.

I'm curious about Xamarin. I've been weary of cross platform tools since the days of trying to use phone gap but I understand the current gen of tools are much better.

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#46

Post by crudbug »

I am not a .NET developer. But, Core / Framework / Standard nomenclature is very confusing. Windows and Universal Windows Platform (UWP) also adds further confusion.

They should explicitly define namespaces :

1. XAMARIN namespace as cross platform APIs for .NET ecosystem - iOS, macOS, Android, Linux, may be Web ?

2. UWP/CASCADE ? namespace for Windows 10 systems.

3. WINDOWS namespace for backward compatible .NET Framework systems.

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#47

Post by douche »

arenaninja wrote: post #42
euroclydon wrote: post #33

I lead a .NET development team, and I have no plans start using Core any time soon. That's based on my experience testing it out -- just too different, too based on a myriad of nuget packages (which is too much like NPM for me). This confirms my decision. I'm sure it will be nice once it's all sorted out. The money quote for me is below: Since our goal was to represent any .NET platform we had to break it up into sma…

Here's the other side of the coin, as someone who's worked primarily with npm (JS), composer (PHP), had a taste of cargo (rust) and of course yum, apt-get, etc.: packages are awesome. npm is weird and hellish because people write single-function packages, but that isn't the case in other ecosystems. NuGet provides an easy and familiar way for me to get into it, as opposed to having to absorb the entire ecosystem at o…

Nuget does get a little fun when you are dealing with a solution with multiple library projects that feed into a final executable. So far, I've either had to upgrade all versions of a Nuget package across projects, or spend a lot of time messing around with app/web.config assembly redirects.

At least the granularity of Nuget packages is not at npm-level fineness, although it does sort of feel like it is trending in that direction.

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#48

Post by vamsipk »

arenaninja wrote: post #42
euroclydon wrote: post #33

I lead a .NET development team, and I have no plans start using Core any time soon. That's based on my experience testing it out -- just too different, too based on a myriad of nuget packages (which is too much like NPM for me). This confirms my decision. I'm sure it will be nice once it's all sorted out. The money quote for me is below: Since our goal was to represent any .NET platform we had to break it up into sma…

Here's the other side of the coin, as someone who's worked primarily with npm (JS), composer (PHP), had a taste of cargo (rust) and of course yum, apt-get, etc.: packages are awesome. npm is weird and hellish because people write single-function packages, but that isn't the case in other ecosystems. NuGet provides an easy and familiar way for me to get into it, as opposed to having to absorb the entire ecosystem at o…

_packages are awesome. npm is weird and hellish because people write single-function packages, but that isn't the case in other ecosystems_

I have no knowledge of how NuGet works but is there anything in NuGet that is stopping the developers from writing/using single line packages?

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#49

Post by 616c »

ep103 wrote: post #24
Analemma_ wrote: post #16

I understand that Microsoft has to clean up a lot of legacy baggage around this ecosystem, and it does look like the way forward is much clearer and nicer, but man, was there any way this could've been done without another ".NET "? I'm still figuring out .NET Core/4.5/Framework and all the ASP naming zaniness... and I'm a .NET developer! I do trust Microsoft that this is really, truly the last time this will have to…

I agree 100%. So anyone care to take a stab at it? How does this differ from .Net Core?

I believe this was discussed a while back by Scott Hunter in his interview on the .NET Rocks Podcast, who is the PM of all the .NET Platform. He explains, almost apologetically, what all this entails. Needless to say this is not news. I do not follow .NET that much until Core meant Linux, so I listen to things like this.

http://dotnetrocks.com/?show=1291

(I apologize in advance for anyone who uses JS blocking like me; open it in your other YOLO browser if you know what's good for you; the .NET Rocks team loves Angular a little too much.)

Re: Introducing .NET Standard

#50

Post by Delmania »

pjmlp wrote: post #37
2bitencryption wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started using Xamarin to develop an Android app, expecting the Xamarin platform to be some gross in-between which only exists to squeeze just a few more developers onto C#. But, no joke, it's a BETTER experience than Android Studio. I had a much better time using Xamarin Studio (on OS X) and Visual Studio with Xamarin (on Windows) than I ever did with Android Studio. And not just because of the tools: C# provides s…

I still don't understand how Microsoft was able to provide a better debugging and tooling experience for Android, than Google itself for their own OS, although Android Studio 2.2 finally seems to be usable.

> I still don't understand how Microsoft was able to provide a better debugging and tooling experience for Android, than Google itself for their own OS, although Android Studio 2.2 finally seems to be usable.

Visual Studio was first released in 1997, the company has 20 years experience in designing and building tooling. I believe they also have a very firm dogfooding policy, and some very intelligent people work there.

Google changed the search engine landscape and created the only competitor to the iPhone, but building tools and tooling is definitely not a key strength.

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