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Autism and Evolution

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Re: Autism and Evolution

#21

Post by adsfqwop »

hannob wrote: post #11
adsfqwop wrote: post #4

I don't quite buy that autism will be shown to be genetic. I think it's an environmental factor. The rate of increase in autism is pretty much exponential: http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/full/479022a/box/1.ht... Now that's a very scary chart if you start to project that curve into the future. Here's another one. Not saying this is the cause, but it is a cause for concern. We have many similar patterns of envi…

> I don't quite buy that autism will be shown to be genetic. I think it's an environmental factor. The rate of increase in autism is pretty much exponential: You're confusing increase in diagnosis versus increase in autism. This confusion is the whole basis of the "autism epidemic" claim.

Am I? The Nature article explicitly states that the shift in diagnosis criteria does not fully explain the increase in numbers.

"Shifting diagnoses and heightened awareness explain only part of the apparent rise in autism. Scientists are struggling to explain the rest."

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/full/479022a.html

Re: Autism and Evolution

#22

Post by stri8ted »

kijin wrote: post #13
3pt14159 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cousin had debilitating autism that was greatly diminished by removing wheat germ from his diet, so I partially buy the environmental take, but on the other hand it is a disease that is correlated with parental IQ, where a higher IQ leads to more likely incidence of autism. I don't think it's a coincidence that the rise of co-sexed secondary education and finer grained sorting with institutions like Harvard and MI…

Since this thread is about evolution, we might even say that the evolutionary pressures we currently face in the developed world actually favor mild variants of ASD. It might be because some ASD traits help people become more successful in the information economy. Asperger's people often thrive in well-paid occupations such as programming and data analysis where spontaneous social interaction is widely acknowledged t…

Being economically successful in the western world, does not necessarily translate to more (surviving) offspring.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#23

Post by nickpsecurity »

I went the other way with it: high-functioning autism is a component of more-evolved humans. The autistics are more rational, often less selfish in my anecdotal experience, and cause almost no harm to others vs baseline. A world full of them would've largely eliminated famine, pollution, war, violent crime. It would be a fraction of what we see. Further, autistics and introverts are often behind many great advances that push progress of our species forward. That would increase greatly.

So, I've always thought of us as the next thing after homo sapiens. Jokingly call it Neosapiens from a cartoon as it was a cool name. Not likely to actually happen but a nice example of how the world might have been better. My ideal one, though, preserves the different types of people with two modifications: built-in mechanism where causing harm to others makes individual experience personal pain; built-in need to connect outside local sphere to reduce isolationism. These two would keep world more interesting than the safe, autistic one while also eliminating many problems. Just two, small changes in the brain.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#24

Post by s_kilk »

euyyn wrote: post #16
i14ng wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the autism diagnostic criteria were broadened in the DSM, the people making that change predicted that we would see this rise in diagnostic rates. That was the intent, to help a broader range of people. It's played out slowly as clinicians and schools were retrained. There's also been an increasing incentive to diagnose as autism in addition to intellectual disability when possible, because insurance companies a…

Can you give more details on the "some of them are obviously inherited, because the kids are so much like the parents" part? Kids everywhere are so much like their parents, so the reasoning, as written, is nonsense.

(not the person you're replying to)

The implication seems to be that the parents also exhibit traits of the autism spectrum, so it's hardly surprising that their kids would do the same.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#25

Post by nickpsecurity »

noipv4 wrote: post #17

So are Asperger / ASD mutations, a step back, step forward, or a step in a different direction (evolution?)

dragonwriter is right in general sense. We can evaluate it, though, from our own perspective. It's a step forward in terms of intelligence and stability in world. It's a giant leap backward in terms of success or happiness in a world of non-autistic people. Evolution would also consider it a negative in that autistics get laid and reproduce less than non-autistics. They also are more likely to loose in competition in corporations, battlefields, and jungles. So, it's a net loss overall for evolution's main function but autistics persist for one reason or another.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#26

Post by douche »

xutopia wrote: post #15
adsfqwop wrote: post #4

I don't quite buy that autism will be shown to be genetic. I think it's an environmental factor. The rate of increase in autism is pretty much exponential: http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/full/479022a/box/1.ht... Now that's a very scary chart if you start to project that curve into the future. Here's another one. Not saying this is the cause, but it is a cause for concern. We have many similar patterns of envi…

What if the markers are recessive and the social fabric today means more people with the recessive genes procreate?

I'm not sure if more people with the recessive genes procreate now vs in previous eras, in total; I suspect that more couples that carry autism-related genes are procreating with each other, due to increased prevalence of educational and intelligence-based assortive mating.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#27

Post by lets-tryagain »

3pt14159 wrote: post #8
adsfqwop wrote: post #4

I don't quite buy that autism will be shown to be genetic. I think it's an environmental factor. The rate of increase in autism is pretty much exponential: http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/full/479022a/box/1.ht... Now that's a very scary chart if you start to project that curve into the future. Here's another one. Not saying this is the cause, but it is a cause for concern. We have many similar patterns of envi…

My cousin had debilitating autism that was greatly diminished by removing wheat germ from his diet, so I partially buy the environmental take, but on the other hand it is a disease that is correlated with parental IQ, where a higher IQ leads to more likely incidence of autism. I don't think it's a coincidence that the rise of co-sexed secondary education and finer grained sorting with institutions like Harvard and MI…

Implicit in comments correlating IQ to autism is this strange HN notion that Asperger's/autism is some sort of super power.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#28

Post by euyyn »

s_kilk wrote: post #24
euyyn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give more details on the "some of them are obviously inherited, because the kids are so much like the parents" part? Kids everywhere are so much like their parents, so the reasoning, as written, is nonsense.

(not the person you're replying to) The implication seems to be that the parents also exhibit traits of the autism spectrum, so it's hardly surprising that their kids would do the same.

If it's that, without finer detail, it's also a weak argument. I behave like my mother in many things; doesn't mean I was genetically predisposed to, as plenty of behavior is acquired from the parents.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#29

Post by lithos »

stri8ted wrote: post #22
kijin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this thread is about evolution, we might even say that the evolutionary pressures we currently face in the developed world actually favor mild variants of ASD. It might be because some ASD traits help people become more successful in the information economy. Asperger's people often thrive in well-paid occupations such as programming and data analysis where spontaneous social interaction is widely acknowledged t…

Being economically successful in the western world, does not necessarily translate to more (surviving) offspring.

But it does ensure your child/ren have access to medical professionals, which causes what the medical community as a whole to see an increase in cases.

Re: Autism and Evolution

#30

Post by lets-tryagain »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #25
noipv4 wrote: post #17

So are Asperger / ASD mutations, a step back, step forward, or a step in a different direction (evolution?)

dragonwriter is right in general sense. We can evaluate it, though, from our own perspective. It's a step forward in terms of intelligence and stability in world. It's a giant leap backward in terms of success or happiness in a world of non-autistic people. Evolution would also consider it a negative in that autistics get laid and reproduce less than non-autistics. They also are more likely to loose in competition in…

These comments are simply unbelievable. Autism is not a super power. Visit families with meaningfully autistic children and come back and tell me if you think it is a "step forward" in "intelligence and stability". These children will need to be institutionalized as adults.
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