Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#61

Post by JohnTHaller » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

whamlastxmas wrote: post #5

Let me save you the time: it's an article pandering to fat people without any substance and really dishonest arguments. The complaint is that doctors tell fat people to lose weight when they come in with symptoms that match the symptoms of being very overweight. If you go to the doctor with knee pain and you are drastically overweight, the most likely answer is that the knee pain is from being overweight. The doctor…

It's also worth noting the risks to staff in doing surgeries, procedures, and scans on extremely obese patients. Someone has to move them on and off tables and platforms. My brother in law (xray tech) wrecked his back getting an obese patient up for an xray. You'd need to staff a couple extra aides just to lift patients of that size, but hospitals don't do it.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#62

Post by whamlastxmas » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #47

whamlastxmas wrote: post #5

Let me save you the time: it's an article pandering to fat people without any substance and really dishonest arguments. The complaint is that doctors tell fat people to lose weight when they come in with symptoms that match the symptoms of being very overweight. If you go to the doctor with knee pain and you are drastically overweight, the most likely answer is that the knee pain is from being overweight. The doctor…

I've noticed the liberal media is pretty big on the 'fat rights' bandwagon right now. I imagine its profitable considering the number of fat people in the US and fits in with the largely SJW editorial narrative bias the press is fond of. As a chronically 25-50lbs overweight person with knee problems, just dropping 10lbs was like night and day for me. Suddenly my feet and knees didn't hurt as much and I felt and slept…

Media is big on controversy and always has been. The controversy doesn't matter.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#63

Post by ivraatiems » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #52

ivraatiems wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite the point I am making. The point is that taking either condition at its most surface level and just saying "why don't you just fix it?" is unhelpful. The fact that there are known ways to help solve weight loss isn't the problem. Obese people know there are ways to lose weight. The issue is psychological - not believing one can achieve the goal, not being ready/willing to fully commit to the goal, fe…

> Plus, you suggest that because the way to lose weight is clear (it is), that makes it easy. > > There are safe, reliable, and well-understood ways to lose weight. They're not easy The poster you are replying to specifically said it wasn't easy.

Yes, but then he goes on to suggest that it IS easier than dealing with depression. I think that while that is probably true, it is not true by much, and not true enough to make a distinction here.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#64

Post by hasenj » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #44

My experience, having been both a very obese person (100 lbs overweight) an an almost normal-weight person (10ish pounds overweight) is that obese people get worse _everything_. I expected to have an easier time talking to the opposite sex when I lost weight, and this ended up being true. I had no idea how much better talking to everyone else would be. In customer-business interactions, job interviews, and really eve…

Having been obese in the past as well, I can confirm some of your experience.

However, to be honest, I don't see it as a form of negative prejudice. It's a completely reasonable prejudice.

You can only become obese due to some very critical character flaw.

For example: inability to delay gratification, lusting over immediate pleasures, inability to make plans and stick to them, inability to read social cues telling you to stop gaining weight, perhaps indifference to society all together, general apathy (nothing matters anyway so might as well enjoy this cookie, for the 20th time today), etc.

No one wants to be around people who don't take care of themselves and ooze of negativity and desperation.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#65

Post by ivraatiems » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

jakebasile wrote: post #50

ivraatiems wrote: post #22

I'm disappointed by the lack of empathy in these comments. While I agree that yes, an obese person needs to lose weight, telling them that and offering no other help is like telling someone with depression "why don't you just cheer up?" It's totally unuseful advice that incorporate all sorts of gross value judgments about the person. It doesn't solve problems. I've been overweight - not obese, but close at times - al…

It's infuriating. HN commenters will fall over themselves to rail against discrimination, real or imagined, against women and minorities, but it's perfectly OK to insult, demean, and minimize the problems of big people. They know nothing about their lives, why they are big, what their health problems come from, what they've tried to lose weight. It's easy to dismiss them as weak willed disgusting blobs of fat, ignori…

In fairness to HN, this is a societal problem, not an HN problem. It's a viewpoint issue that affects lots of people.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#66

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #44

My experience, having been both a very obese person (100 lbs overweight) an an almost normal-weight person (10ish pounds overweight) is that obese people get worse _everything_. I expected to have an easier time talking to the opposite sex when I lost weight, and this ended up being true. I had no idea how much better talking to everyone else would be. In customer-business interactions, job interviews, and really eve…

riding a recumbent helps a lot

Don't tell anyone that, or they'll be just as dismissive as before! b^)

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#67

Post by echlebek » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #22

I'm disappointed by the lack of empathy in these comments. While I agree that yes, an obese person needs to lose weight, telling them that and offering no other help is like telling someone with depression "why don't you just cheer up?" It's totally unuseful advice that incorporate all sorts of gross value judgments about the person. It doesn't solve problems. I've been overweight - not obese, but close at times - al…

I don't think the message is "just lose weight". It's "before we can treat this knee problem, we need to deal with your weight problem".

Being obese is a critical health problem. It's not wrong for doctors to prioritize it, and I don't think it belies a lack of empathy to agree with them.

I say this as a person with a weight control problem.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#68

Post by drzaiusapelord » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

whamlastxmas wrote: post #62

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed the liberal media is pretty big on the 'fat rights' bandwagon right now. I imagine its profitable considering the number of fat people in the US and fits in with the largely SJW editorial narrative bias the press is fond of. As a chronically 25-50lbs overweight person with knee problems, just dropping 10lbs was like night and day for me. Suddenly my feet and knees didn't hurt as much and I felt and slept…

Media is big on controversy and always has been. The controversy doesn't matter.

Why isn't media big on the controversy on a the pro-personal responsibility side of things? As far as I can tell it panders to fat rights groups uncritically. I think pretending this bias doesn't exist is being generous towards the real media bias that surrounds us. There's no debate here. Its clear obesity and surgical outcomes are linked. Doctors aren't "discriminating" here. Lets stop the leftist nonsense as it contradicts the science.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#69

Post by AstralStorm » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #6

Life is hard when you have worked yourself into a health hole. Getting out will require treating a cluster of issues. Obesity is trivial to diagnose. So the rest get little attention until that one is dealt with. Occams razor says don't spend a moment more figuring out probable cause than is necessary.

Except medicine works on different principles than Ockham razor. Such as the Hippocrates oath some doctors selectively forget. (2nd and 4th verse of modern version)

A doctor is not supposed to stop or not attempt treatment because a person is fat... which is a kind of sickness, not really a choice. Not should they stop at the most obvious issue, especially when it takes years to fix.

Re: Why Do Obese Patients Get Worse Care? Many Doctors Don't See Past the Fat

#70

Post by hasenj » Mon, Sep 26, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

jakebasile wrote: post #42

diyseguy wrote: post #14

Obesity is deeply repulsive on two levels. People who get to these extreme levels of obesity are basically suicidal. Aside from the obvious revolting physical appearance, there's an underlying message of "might as well die". Their chosen method of suicide is death by uninhibited indulgence in food.

How is it acceptable to call big people revolting and wave off their condition as "suicidal"? You know nothing of these people, or why they are big. They aren't here to look pleasing to you, they just want to live their lives. People are not always big by choice. Do you blame all alcoholics for their condition?

> They aren't here to look pleasing to you

So?

GP is not here to indulge them either. To each his own. They can choose to indulge on food, it's their freedom, and he can choose to ignore them, it's his freedom.