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Canvas Gauges

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Re: Canvas Gauges

#21

Post by throwawayIndian »

throwawayReply wrote: post #14

Radial gauges are an example of bad skeuomorphism. They don't convey any history and more importantly they don't have useful meaning unless you have a measurable first differential (i.e. no step change). They're useful for literal physical speed, because the movement of the needle helps give a sense of acceleration as well as speed. But if you don't care about acceleration (or more generally the delta of the primary…

> Sorry for the rant, you're just responding to a demand. It's a demand I'd rather see met through educating better data visualisation than through prettier gauges.

If there is demand it's probably good to respond to it as it is. There is no need to fucking educate propaganda like you said about skeumorphism or no-skeuomorphism.

Besides can you give one example of any software product that is not skeuomorphic? There is none to begin with. So please stop using this bullshit cultural kool-aid to troll and exclude designs that probably don't suit your elitism.

Re: Canvas Gauges

#22

Post by ctoth »

rand_r wrote: post #18
ctoth wrote: post #8

These do not appear to be accessible at all. If you use this on your site, I will not be able to read whatever you're trying to tell me, other than by making me look at source. Please don't do that. I know accessibility is hard, and the developers of this were just trying to make something that looks nice and gets the job done. Every time an inaccessible reusable {component, library, toolkit\, framework} is released,…

What is your software setup? How do we test something from your perspective?

If you have an iPhone or Mac, check out VoiceOver, it comes as part of the platform. http://webaim.org/articles/voiceover/ has a pretty good intro to VoiceOver on the Mac.

I'm on windows, and personally use the free and open source NVDA screen reader http://nvaccess.org Once again it looks like WebAIM have some good instructions to get you started: http://webaim.org/articles/nvda/

Re: Canvas Gauges

#23

Post by manyxcxi »

ctoth wrote: post #20
hutzlibu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best way to provide accessibility ... would be a alternative accessibility mode, triggered by the browser, where you get only the plain text-info with no fancy stuff. (I would love that for surfing with mobile browsers on bad connection, too)

Some reasons why this is a bad idea: Who implements it? Every individual website? then we're back where we started, not to mention that everybody's responsible means nobody's responsible, and consequently it won't happen. The web, for better or worse, is transitioning to an app delivery platform. While a text-only mode of some type makes sense for a document-oriented web, it holds little appeal for app developers or…

We have the ADA in America. It's part of the building code that you would have wheelchair ramps, wider stalls, hand rails at certain heights, and other accessibility features and every one of these rules must be implemented by anyone building or maintaining an open to the public/business space.

Of course it should be on the individual implementer to make it work. I wouldn't want someone else taking my concept and running it through an accessibility grinder without my input. It should also be on the individual company/team to decide if it not being accessible is something they're legally or morally okay with. I'd say that if you're building an in browser FPS, maybe there are some accessibility features you don't need because the group has been partially self selected by the fact their vision is good enough to want to play an FPS.

I did a lot of technical work for Target not that long after their big ADA lawsuit so EVERYTHING public facing was reviewed for accessibility. I'll be honest, it's typically not that hard to deliver a great 100% experience to people that do and don't need the accessibility features, you just have to learn what goes into it. And no, aria-hidden, isn't enough.

EDIT: I wanted to add that if you think accessibility means it can't look good, then you really don't know what's available today. You often don't have to make any trade offs to design if you don't want to.

Re: Canvas Gauges

#24

Post by white-flame »

throwawayReply wrote: post #14

Radial gauges are an example of bad skeuomorphism. They don't convey any history and more importantly they don't have useful meaning unless you have a measurable first differential (i.e. no step change). They're useful for literal physical speed, because the movement of the needle helps give a sense of acceleration as well as speed. But if you don't care about acceleration (or more generally the delta of the primary…

There's a reason that automobiles continue using radial gauges: They're the quickest way to convey a scalar value at a glance. It has little to do with acceleration. If you're going to have a monitoring dashboard, radial gauges make immediate sense.

(The wobble is dumb, though)

Re: Canvas Gauges

#25

Post by manyxcxi »

throwawayReply wrote: post #14

Radial gauges are an example of bad skeuomorphism. They don't convey any history and more importantly they don't have useful meaning unless you have a measurable first differential (i.e. no step change). They're useful for literal physical speed, because the movement of the needle helps give a sense of acceleration as well as speed. But if you don't care about acceleration (or more generally the delta of the primary…

I disagree. Radial gauges immediately convey accepted boundaries and where your real time measurement is within those.

For example, I've done a fair bit of racing in my day- we take the tach and any other various gauges and rotate them so that when the needle is pointing straight up, it's where you expect the reading to be.

Say you have a CPU monitor where under a certain threshold reduces nodes in the cluster and over adds. This can vary from application to application and you're monitoring 5. Sure is nice to get the high, low, and current in one glance.

Now, there certainly could be equal as or better ways of displaying it. You could do away with a skeumorphic face for sure. But a radial gauge itself I would argue is very useful.

Re: Canvas Gauges

#26

Post by throwawayIndian »

manyxcxi wrote: post #25
throwawayReply wrote: post #14

Radial gauges are an example of bad skeuomorphism. They don't convey any history and more importantly they don't have useful meaning unless you have a measurable first differential (i.e. no step change). They're useful for literal physical speed, because the movement of the needle helps give a sense of acceleration as well as speed. But if you don't care about acceleration (or more generally the delta of the primary…

I disagree. Radial gauges immediately convey accepted boundaries and where your real time measurement is within those. For example, I've done a fair bit of racing in my day- we take the tach and any other various gauges and rotate them so that when the needle is pointing straight up, it's where you expect the reading to be. Say you have a CPU monitor where under a certain threshold reduces nodes in the cluster and ov…

+1. Totally agree!

I hate this bullshit propaganda that goes like "this is skeuomorphic and the other thing is not". There is nothing in the world of software that isn't a skeuomorphic equivalent of some thing or some process that has already existed in this world.

Look at Object Oriented Programming, for example. Look at 'Code is poetry' for a comparison. Look at button design. Look at page design {Header, Footer, Body} of a webpage. Look at flat design for that matter! Look at iWatch interface with hands of a clock/watch. Look at the dialpad on your mobile phone.

Tell me which one isn't skeuomorphic? Zilch! Yawns… at these skeuomorphism police.

Re: Canvas Gauges

#27

Post by throwawayReply »

throwawayIndian wrote: post #26
manyxcxi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Radial gauges immediately convey accepted boundaries and where your real time measurement is within those. For example, I've done a fair bit of racing in my day- we take the tach and any other various gauges and rotate them so that when the needle is pointing straight up, it's where you expect the reading to be. Say you have a CPU monitor where under a certain threshold reduces nodes in the cluster and ov…

+1. Totally agree! I hate this bullshit propaganda that goes like "this is skeuomorphic and the other thing is not". There is nothing in the world of software that isn't a skeuomorphic equivalent of some thing or some process that has already existed in this world. Look at Object Oriented Programming, for example. Look at 'Code is poetry' for a comparison. Look at button design. Look at page design {Header, Footer, B…

I didn't say all skeuomorphism is bad, I said that gauges are an example of bad skeuomorphism. Buttons are an example of good skeuomorphism.

Re: Canvas Gauges

#28

Post by coredog64 »

white-flame wrote: post #24
throwawayReply wrote: post #14

Radial gauges are an example of bad skeuomorphism. They don't convey any history and more importantly they don't have useful meaning unless you have a measurable first differential (i.e. no step change). They're useful for literal physical speed, because the movement of the needle helps give a sense of acceleration as well as speed. But if you don't care about acceleration (or more generally the delta of the primary…

There's a reason that automobiles continue using radial gauges: They're the quickest way to convey a scalar value at a glance. It has little to do with acceleration. If you're going to have a monitoring dashboard, radial gauges make immediate sense. (The wobble is dumb, though)

They take up a lot of real estate on a display and aren't particularly easy to read unless you get up close. If you already know what thresholds are it is far better to display a number and use the color to indicate where that is within the continuum of states.

There are practical uses for steam gauges, but I would argue that monitoring complex IT systems is not one of them.

Re: Canvas Gauges

#29

Post by jdmichal »

hutzlibu wrote: post #15
ctoth wrote: post #8

These do not appear to be accessible at all. If you use this on your site, I will not be able to read whatever you're trying to tell me, other than by making me look at source. Please don't do that. I know accessibility is hard, and the developers of this were just trying to make something that looks nice and gets the job done. Every time an inaccessible reusable {component, library, toolkit\, framework} is released,…

I think the best way to provide accessibility ... would be a alternative accessibility mode, triggered by the browser, where you get only the plain text-info with no fancy stuff. (I would love that for surfing with mobile browsers on bad connection, too)

It's pretty standard to provide visually-hidden elements in HTML which provide an accessible version of the data. Remember, screen readers are typically directly working with the DOM -- maybe through an abstraction layer provided by the browser and OS -- and can therefore see everything. You don't need to toggle what is visibly shown for screen readers to do their thing properly.

Re: Canvas Gauges

#30

Post by throwawayReply »

white-flame wrote: post #24
throwawayReply wrote: post #14

Radial gauges are an example of bad skeuomorphism. They don't convey any history and more importantly they don't have useful meaning unless you have a measurable first differential (i.e. no step change). They're useful for literal physical speed, because the movement of the needle helps give a sense of acceleration as well as speed. But if you don't care about acceleration (or more generally the delta of the primary…

There's a reason that automobiles continue using radial gauges: They're the quickest way to convey a scalar value at a glance. It has little to do with acceleration. If you're going to have a monitoring dashboard, radial gauges make immediate sense. (The wobble is dumb, though)

Many automobiles actually have started using numbers instead of a radial gauge. It has even been suggested it actually prompts drivers to speed less when they can see they are doing 74 in digital rather than convincing themselves the needle is resting on 70.
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